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Alabama SC justices cave, order Ten Commandments removed
AP on Fox News ^ | 8-21-03 | AP on Fox News website

Posted on 08/21/2003 8:33:17 AM PDT by rwfromkansas

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:37:00 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

MONTGOMERY, Ala.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; US: Alabama
KEYWORDS: 10commandments; 1stamendment; 666; allyourcommandments; antichrist; antichristian; arebelongtous; bigotry; firstamendment; freedomofreligion; monument; moore; religiousfreedom; roymoore; tencommandements; tencommandments; treason
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Comment #841 Removed by Moderator

To: jethropalerobber
"render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" has to do with paying your taxes and nothing to do with historical fact!
This is about changing history...in the criminal justice textbooks. America's first criminal laws in 1676 were handed down from Duke of York to Pennsylvania Colongist and were based on England's Common Law derived from justices decisions relating to Ten Commandments. The "Original Criminal Code of 1676" is based specifically on Ten Commandments....thereby it is HISTORICAL FACT. There should be no reference to seperation of church and state, it is history...Should we remove Leanardo Di Vinci's name from his painting "Mona Lisa" and give someone else the credit?? Don't let the atheists do this, and they are one's behind it, they will rewrite the textbooks! Next we will be removing GOD and any reference to him from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, and every historical document in America...when are the people of this country going to take a stand against these controlling parasites!
842 posted on 08/21/2003 7:32:27 PM PDT by MarthaNOStewart
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To: ClancyJ
MORE ON THE ACLU - A FULL TEXT OF ONE OF THE LINKS I POSTED

Betrayal at the Top:
The Record of the American Civil Liberties Union

WebMania!

by William H. McIlhany

The ACLU is widely portrayed by the mass media as an uncompromising defender of our most cherished freedoms. The impression given is of a group so dedicated to protecting the Bill of Rights that they would be willing in 1979 to lose as many as 70,000 of their members through their controversial defense of the right of Nazis to march in Skokie, Illinois.

Unquestionably the vast majority of ACLU members have been drawn to the organization by an idealistic response to this image. But on closer examination, a great disparity exists between the group's professed ideals and the work and statements of its leadership. A review of such contradictions can lead to an understanding of why this is the case.

The ACLU and The Right to Life

Since the Supreme Court's legalization of abortion in 1973, the ACLU has remained the staunchest advocate not only of the mass murder of millions of unborn children, but also of compelling those to whom abortion is morally repugnant to pay for it through public funding.

The Union endorses euthanasia or "mercy killing" through so-called "living wills" in which the right to terminate one's own life is delegated to the doctor with the protection of the state.

In spite of the Union's insistence on what it calls a woman's "right to control her own body," we find the group consistently absent from defending doctors and patients who are persecuted for choosing nutritional therapies for terminal diseases. The Union's record in defending the civil liberties of mental patients against involuntary commitment to institutions also leaves much to be desired.

But most amazingly, in spite of the group's willingness to give the government power to determine when life both begins and ends, the ACLU flatly maintains that there is no crime one can commit so horrible, either for retribution or deference, than capital punishment.

ACLU Defends the Soviet Family

It would be fair to say that the ACLU has contributed to the attempted undermining of the American family. They have been active in fighting for distribution of often dangerous methods of contraception and abortion to minors without parental approval. While avoiding defense of doctors who recommend nutrition to their patients, the ACLU has pushed for legalization of dangerous "recreational" drugs, not in the free market, but under government monopoly control. In the face of growing evidence of its relationship to child molestation, the ACLU is famous defending all kinds of pornography from the restrictions of local government, while sanctioning an even more intrusive and impossibly unenforceable "national standard" on obscenity and related matters. And, of course, there is the ACLU's unsuccessful support for that Pandora's box of federal power extensions that was called the "Equal Rights Amendment."

In so many of these issues, which include areas in which the Union has in recent years received much publicity, the ACLU claims to be defending the rights of minors as individuals against the wishes of their parents. But when 12-year-old Ukrainian Walter Polovchak in 1980 ran away from his parents in Chicago because he did not want to be forced to return to a life of slavery in the Soviet Union, the ACLU was so moved by his parents "concern," that they took the case for the boy's involuntary repatriation. Apparently for the ACLU, an American child should be free to do anything regardless of the consequences, but a child from behind the Iron Curtain should be refused the chance for a life of freedom.

Whose Rights?

It may seem incredible that a group like the ACLU would fear the exhibition of Nativity scenes on public property or the singing of "hark the Herald Angels Sing" in public school assembly programs as threats to the First Amendment while turning deaf ears to the pleas of a 12-year-old boy for freedom. But strange conclusions result from the group's tendency to view the concept of rights as pertaining not to all individuals and what they have the right to do, but rather to groups who use government to take away from others the things they think they deserve.

Unlike the authors of the U.S. Constitution, the ACLU views our rights as demanding the fruits of another's labor rather than the opportunity to earn them ourselves. The late Ayn Rand correctly pointed out that this really means the right to enslave others to provide what we want. The Union's leaning toward a collectivist view of rights is further illustrated by the fact that that other guide books separately detail the rights of women, gay people, teachers, students, military personnel, veterans, hospital patients, mentally retarded persons, young people, aliens, students, candidates and voters, suspects, prisoners, lawyers and clients, government employees, etc. It's almost as if our rights are defined by our job or sex, or lack of either.

ACLU Assaults our Intelligence Agencies

Had the ACLU not been around we might not have had the tragedies in Oklahoma City or the bombing at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics.

Perhaps the best known posturing against Big Brother on the part of the Union consists of its often bewilderingly contradictory positions on personal privacy vs. government surveillance and investigation.

The ACLU provided primary leadership for the Left's drive to abolish the:

The Saga of Jay Paul

In 1982 the ACLU of Southern California sued Los Angeles Police Department for alleged "abuses" committed by the Public Disorder Intelligence Division, a department which had investigated subversion and terrorism for many years.

Though initially a fishing expedition to determine what data the department possessed as well as its sources, by 1983 the focus of the attack had become PDID Detective Jay Paul, an acknowledged expert on Communist subversion and terrorism. LAPD had been under outside pressure to destroy its intelligence files and Detective Paul had stored them in his home. These files consisted of many boxes full of public record information, mostly newspaper and magazine articles going back to the 1930's. They were of historical value, possibly useful in ongoing or future investigations and were rescued by Paul from destruction. The ACLU and its liberal political allies in Los Angeles were horrified to discover the collection contained information on their own left-wing activities.

In January 1983 Jay Paul was removed from his intelligence capacity and subjected to an exhausting daily interrogation and investigation that would continue almost 18 months. It is not without significance that this action and the subsequent abolition of the PDID stopped the only advance investigation security preparation that could have helped stop terrorism at the 1984 Summer Olympics before it started.

Using this suit as a public "cause celebre", in the summer of 1983, the Union pushed mightily for a local Freedom of Information ordinance which Police Chief Darryl Gates told the LA City Council would prevent him from protecting the people of Los Angeles against terrorism at the 1984 Olympics. Fortunately enough concerned citizens packed the council chambers in opposition to this measure that only a very emasculated version of the proposal became law.

The ACLU File

One reason why some prominent leaders of the ACLU have been so opposed to public and private investigations of subversion must relate to what such an investigation would reveal about the Union itself.

The ACLU was formed out of earlier organizations in 1920 and its Executive Director and moving spirit until 1950 was Roger Baldwin. Before he died at age 97 in 1981, his ideology may have changed, but during the early years of his ACLU tenure there is no doubt where he stood.

In the "Harvard Class Book of 1935, spotlighting Baldwin's class of 1905 on its thirtieth anniversary, he was quoted as saying, "I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control by those who produce wealth. Communism is, of course, the goal." He gave this advice in 1917 to an associate who was forming another group:

"Do steer away from making it look like a Socialist enterprise...We want also to look like patriots in everything we do. We want to get a good lot of flags, talk a good deal about the Constitution and what our forefathers wanted to make of this country, and to show that we are really the folks that really stand for the spirit of our institutions."

It should not be surprising to note that Baldwin was active during the 1930's in quite a few of the Communist Party's United Front organizations - he was an officer of the Garland Fund, for instance - along with other ACLU leaders including Rev. Harry Ward, Rev. John Haynes Holmes, Clarence Darrow, Scott Nearing, Robert Morss Lovett, Arthur Garfield Hayes, Archibald MacLeish, and Oswald Fraenkel. ACLU leadership also included identified Communist Louis Budenz, Robert Dunn and Corliss Lamont. ACLU activists William Z. Foster and Elizabeth Gurley Flynn would later become leaders of the Communist Party, U.S.A.

Since that time, the ACLU's official left-leaning activism has only steadily increased. Some local affiliates of the Union have always led this crusade, such as the Southern California ACLU which had maintained on its Board identified Communist Party operative Frank Wilkinson. While the national ACLU has not been characterized as a Communist front by any state or federal investigation since 1938, any doubt about its becoming a 'staunch defender' of individual rights was put to rest in April 1976, when the ACLU National Board formally reinstated Communist Elizabeth Gurley Flynn "posthumously" in its ranks. Despite this partisanship, the ACLU and its affiliated tax-exempt foundation continue to receive substantial yearly support from the Ford, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Field, and other foundations.


Internet Link Exchange
Member of the Internet Link Exchange
Recommended reading:

The ACLU on Trial, by William H. McIlhany, (New Rochelle, New York: Arlington House, 1976)
The Tax-Exempt Foundations, by William H. McIlhany(Westport, CT: Arlington House, 1980)


LINKS:

Building Enemies|AFSC|IPS|CNSS|Rhodes|Fulbright|CDI|FOR|NLG|FRB|Teacher Unions

Return Arrow

Return to Biographical Sketches of the Left


This document was created with the assistance of no one
843 posted on 08/21/2003 7:32:31 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: Viva Le Dissention
You are creating a strawman out of "original intent" and textualists here, and making a false choice between only textual reading and wholesale activism.

The right and correct answer is Judicial restraint and keeping constitutional interpretation close to the text and intent. The fact that law cases wont be directly answered by the generalities of the text of the Law is no surprise, this is what Judges are for. But that is "filling in the gaps" not "weaving new clothing". What *is* new is the bogus modernist idea that a text can be 'living' (aka 'rewritten to suit a new whim').

What must remain interpretation is this: what the Constitution *says* not what we would wish it to mean.

And quit pretending Judicial activism is simply about expanding rights when in fact it's more the opposite (in this case and others).
844 posted on 08/21/2003 7:41:51 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: moneyrunner
You suggestion (below) is brilliant!




I have suggestion for a replacement for the monument. A tasteful sign:
The Ten Commandments

The Basis for the American Common Law

Were removed

As a result of a lawsuit

by the

ACLU

The

SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER

And

AND THE FOLLOWING PLAINTIFFS:

STEPHEN R. GLASSROTH

MELINDA MADDOX

BEVERLY HOWARD

Who claimed in a court of law that they found the monument offensive.

Perhaps the sign should be encased in glass and lighted so that it may be read at night.
845 posted on 08/21/2003 7:43:52 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: rwfromkansas
Bill Federer’s American Minute:
August 21, 2003
Born in Scotland, he was one of only six founding fathers to sign both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. President George Washington appointed him a Justice on the Supreme Court. One of the most active members at the Constitutional Convention, he spoke 168 times. His name was James Wilson and he died this day, August 21, 1798. The first law professor of the University of Pennsylvania, James Wilson wrote: "It should always be remembered, that this law, natural or revealed, flows from the same divine source; it is the law of God.... Human law must rest its authority, ultimately, upon the authority of that law, which is divine."
846 posted on 08/21/2003 7:47:41 PM PDT by comnet
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To: WOSG
bump
847 posted on 08/21/2003 7:48:13 PM PDT by foreverfree
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To: general_re
In particular, it may not restrict the public square to one favored sect or creed, as Judge Moore did."

Uh, I agreed up to this point - "restrict" ... the point is, Judge Moore did no such thing. He didnt "restrict" anything, another Judge could do his thing, another office or court could do theirs. And of course private citizens could do there own thing ("A tribute to the contribution of Viking morality to American life ...").

Judge Moore's display does not involve any official edict, any establishment, any favoritism towards a particular sectarian group, nor any coercion or intimidation. Only those in the business of being professionally aggravated by religious sentiment even claim to be "offended". NOBODY is harmed by it.

What he did was no more an establishment of religion than making "MLK Boulevard" in our town means a violation of the free speech of those who oppose him.

Or maybe its okay to impose the religion of MLK but not Moses?:-)
848 posted on 08/21/2003 7:51:21 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: ClancyJ
"Oh, I forgot - Christians are to stand meekly by and never stand up for their beliefs. Only the atheists, Muslims, Buddists and all others can speak with any authority."


Yup, you got their desires down pat. I see another bumper sticker in the works ...

ANNOY THE ACLU - EVANGELIZE CHRISTIANITY

849 posted on 08/21/2003 7:53:02 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: floriduh voter
While sitting at your desk make clockwise circles with your right foot. While doing this, draw the number "6" in the air with your right hand. Your foot will change direction. NOW EXPLAIN THAT ONE!!

My foot did indeed change direction - my cat got excited and chased it, so I gave her a firm nudge with it. Counterclockwise.

850 posted on 08/21/2003 7:54:13 PM PDT by strela ("Each of us can find a maggot in our past which will happily devour our futures." Horatio Hornblower)
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To: jwalsh07
"The Ninth Amendment was a constraint on the federal government , not a license for the federal courts, the third branch of the federal government, to make laws."

That is a good way to say it.
851 posted on 08/21/2003 7:54:17 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: jwalsh07
"They both place constraints on the federal government while the Tenth Amendment acknolwedges powers that are the states. Big difference unless you're a central government kind of guy."

He seems to be a centralized Judicial Imperial Government kind of guy. :-} ... hmm, kind of like what they have in Iran, without the turbans.
852 posted on 08/21/2003 7:56:46 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: rwfromkansas
[In the 1873 Slaughterhouse cases] the 14th Amendment was not considered to make the BOR apply to the states.

Now that's a huge understatement. What the Slaughterhouse cases did was to essentially render the Privileges or Immunities clause null and void, which of course ultimately led to what is now the hopelessly convoluted doctrine of Selective Incorporation via Substantive Due Process.

Something you might enjoy reading is Justice Thomas' 1999 dissent in Saenz v. Roe. Snippet from footnotes:

Legal scholars agree on little beyond the conclusion that the Clause does not mean what the Court said it meant in [the Slaughterhouse cases]. See, e.g., Harrison, Reconstructing the Privileges or Immunities Clause, 101 Yale L. J. 1385, 1418 (1992) (Clause is an antidiscrimination provision); D. Currie, The Constitution in the Supreme Court 341— 351 (1985) (same); 2 W. Crosskey, Politics and the Constitution in the History of the United States 1089—1095 (1953) (Clause incorporates first eight Amendments of the Bill of Rights); M. Curtis, No State Shall Abridge 100 (1986) (Clause protects the rights included in the Bill of Rights as well as other fundamental rights); B. Siegan, Supreme Court’s Constitution 46—71 (1987) (Clause guarantees Lockean conception of natural rights); Ackerman, Constitutional Politics/Constitutional Law, 99 Yale L. J. 453, 521— 536 (1989) (same); J. Ely, Democracy and Distrust 28 (1980) (Clause “was a delegation to future constitutional decision-makers to protect certain rights that the document neither lists … or in any specific way gives directions for finding”); R. Berger, Government by Judiciary 30 (2d ed. 1997) (Clause forbids race discrimination with respect to rights listed in the Civil Rights Act of 1866); R. Bork, The Tempting of America 166 (1990) (Clause is inscrutable and should be treated as if it had been obliterated by an ink blot).

853 posted on 08/21/2003 8:01:07 PM PDT by Sandy
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To: Viva Le Dissention
So if you really think that Jews and Christians worship the same God, why is it so tough to think that Christians and Muslims worship the same God?"

Again, quit spreading your ignorance of the massive differences between Islam and Christianity. once again, for educational purposes, learn about Islam :

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/968155/posts

"Hey, I'm not going to discuss this anymore, but when the Catholic Church even says that Christians and Muslims worship the same God, you ought to re-think that position of yours. Is the Catholic Church in on this Muslim conspiracy, too?"

I am a Catholic and I have never heard that nonsense coming from anyone in the church. Anyway, unless you buy into *all* the Catholic Church teachings on *all* things, your 'argument from authority' has the ring of hollow sophistry.
854 posted on 08/21/2003 8:07:15 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Hie thee to the porn pit.
855 posted on 08/21/2003 8:08:34 PM PDT by Kevin Curry (Put Justice Janice Rogers Brown on the Supreme Court--NOW)
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To: MineralMan
" It's so easy to dupe most people into believing whatever darn fool thing you want them to believe. Any good speaker could start a church and fill it with an avid congregation. How do you suppose Falwell does it?"

Or Deepak Chopra, or Tony Robbins, or that bald guy with the moustache who has the answer to everything, or that herbal medicine doctor (Weir?) ??? ... or whoever else they throw up there on PBS during their fundraising drives (if I was running those specials I'd call it the "church of the secular enlightened").
856 posted on 08/21/2003 8:12:24 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: Sandy
Good quote.

Bad Law makes for Hard Cases.

857 posted on 08/21/2003 8:16:06 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: apackof2
I think Pat probably has a better understanding of the slippery slope of losing our freedom of religion than you do

Right, right - either we let Roy Moore and Coral Ridge use the state of Alabama as their personal hobby-horse, or we're on the road to tossing them to the lions.

You don't have the freedom to use the state as a hammer to smack people with your beliefs. Neither do I. Deal with it. And if your faith is so weak that it can't survive without the patronage of the state, maybe it deserves to die anyway.

858 posted on 08/21/2003 8:28:46 PM PDT by general_re (A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.)
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To: jethropalerobber
if he thought it would get him promoted to chief justice of the alabama supreme court, he probably would refuse. isn't that how moore got the job? btw, why are you posting your wet dreams on a public message board?

I feel your pain. And it's hitting me right in the neck.

859 posted on 08/21/2003 8:28:57 PM PDT by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: Protagoras
I'm sorry you made that mistake.

Im sorry you took my comment so much to heart that you felt this need to pick mine out of all the comments that were made in response to this.

860 posted on 08/21/2003 8:34:07 PM PDT by smith288 ('This time I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton.' - Uday Hussein)
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