Alabama SC justices cave, order Ten Commandments removed

AP on Fox News ^ | 8-21-03 | AP on Fox News website

[rwfromkansas]

MONTGOMERY, Ala.

[P-Marlowe]

Actually the thing to do is to remove it now and then in a few months replace it with a monument to the sermon on the mount.

Then after a couple of years of litigation the courts can order it removed and then he can replace that with a monument to Genesis 1:1.

Then after a couple of years of litigation.....

[MineralMan]

"I've seen people try to explain this "G-D" thing many times. It never makes sense. I'm not sure what off-shoot Christian denomination subscribes to this, but it aint mainstream."

It's mostly the Messianic Jews who do this. Now, they're not Jews by birth, but take on some of the customs of Judaism, while being heavily evangelically Christian. Pretty unusual group, and worth a look on Google.

[habs4ever]

Well said.

[ClancyJ]

My answer is not just over this one instance - it is the ongoing pattern of what is happening in our society. Don't think we don't know what is going on.

There is an ongoing effort to remove God from America. We see it for what it is and whether they are hiding behind "they don't feel comfortable", "should someone be made to feel left out because they don't believe in God?", their claims that the U.S. constitution means no God in the public arena, don't expect us to be bowled over with the justifications for removing God from America.

I ask WHY? WHY is there such an effort to remove any mention of God, the Pledge of Allegiance? There has to be a reason and that reason is either they are so far removed from God that they cannot stand even the mention of the word, that they are doing this to remove God from America and install their Allah, or someother unknown major reason God can not be tolerated in America.

Just what is the reason?

It is not because it offends the Constitution. The constitution has stood many years with God in the middle of all America. Why now the effort to get rid of that God?

[missyme]

I guess to me The Holy Bible is like a math equation 2 and 2 equals 4 always have always will no matter how many people try to twist it to mean anything else.

Truth is Truth

[missyme]

What do you know and why would an Atheist care about any religious web-site

[lugsoul]

Okay. How much of an organization is necessary for something to qualify for your view of an "organization" - to be an establishment of religion? A hierarchy of officials? A building? A book? A website? A set of central tenets?

Let me say first that I disagree entirely with your view of the Establishment Clause, and further state that you can't support it with discourse from the founders - "Establishment" does not mean "an organization" - it means "the establishment by the government of state-sponsored religion." The use of the word in the convention clearly referred to the establishment by government of religion - not a formal organization that Congress was prohibited from reaching with legislation. Your interpretation would be that Congress can not make a law about an organized Church, but can make one about a disorganized Church. Of course, the level of organization - what is an Establishment and what is not - was never discussed by anyone.

In addition, the free exercise clause refers to the free exercise "thereof" - what is "thereof"? It is whatever is protected in the Establishment Clause.

If something is not covered by the Establishment Clause, it is not covered by the rest of that same sentence, in the Free Exercise Clause. Any other construction is, to be kind, tortured. Moore states that these religions are not "religions" for purposes of the Establishment Clause. Therefore, they are not religions for the Free Exercise Clause. This is entirely consistent with his statements that non-Judeo-Christians can worship their God ONLY because our God lets them.

[Roughneck]

Yep, and the Old Covenant(Covenant of Law) passed away, and we entered the Covenant of Grace. The laws handed down to and for the Isrealites, and there adherence to them, were no longer "the way to heaven". Thus, the Ten Commandments, which were the LAW OF THE ISRAELITES, were no longer law. And nowhere did Christ ever indicate that the Ten Commandmenst were meant to be the laws of earthy governments.



Christ said: "I id not come to Abolish the law, but to fullfill it"

Try again.

[Roughneck]

Yep, and the Old Covenant(Covenant of Law) passed away, and we entered the Covenant of Grace. The laws handed down to and for the Isrealites, and there adherence to them, were no longer "the way to heaven". Thus, the Ten Commandments, which were the LAW OF THE ISRAELITES, were no longer law. And nowhere did Christ ever indicate that the Ten Commandmenst were meant to be the laws of earthy governments.



Christ said: "I did not come to Abolish the law, but to fullfill it"

Try again.

[BearCub]

Since when is the state promoting or coercing a faith when a local court wishes to INCLUDE among other writings the Ten Commandments which just so happen to be a cornerstone of western law?

Correction, the Commandments that are the cornerstone of western law are:

Don't kill anybody
Don't lie
Don't steal
Honor your parents
Don't commit adultery

And those are terrific guidelines for everyone to follow. So much so that they have been turned into laws. The others have little significance to non-Judeo-Christians and have no place in a government building. Or at least no more place than a quote from the Koran saying that infidels should be killed and their women raped.

[Renatus]

But it's clear that he's doing this for political reasons

Not clear to me.

[lugsoul]

My comment did not even concern your question.

[MineralMan]

"WHY is there such an effort to remove any mention of God, the Pledge of Allegiance? "

Hmm...I say the Pledge of Allegiance the same way today as I said it when I first learned it in 1st Grade:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

I've said the pledge thousands of times in my life, and have said it the same way each time. I am an atheist. I don't believe in any deities or other supernatural entities. If I added "under God" to the Pledge, I would be lying, you see.

So, as my 6th grade teacher told us when those words were added to the Pledge, "You can say it either way, children. Either way, you are pledging your support for our country and for its flag." Smart lady, that teacher.

So, am I less of a patriot than someone who adds those two words? I think not.

[missyme]

So are you saying the Ten Commandments were given to who? The Angles in heaven? that makes no sense.

Jesus came because human beings could not obey them so instead of the ultimate Punishment DEATH we have a chance of eternal life through Christ.

You need to do your best to obey the Ten Commandments but if you fail then ask for forgiveness.

Courts might not forgive you but G-D will

[MineralMan]

"What do you know and why would an Atheist care about any religious web-site"

What I know and what I care about are of no concern to you, missy. Fortunately, I live in a country that supports my freedom to believe as I choose and, by the way, to visit any web site I choose. I do not answer to you.

[Roughneck]

Most of us wouldn't be here if it wasn't for immigration. Illegal immigration is different. All of us has immigrant blood in us, except true native americans!


This nation was founded by explorers, not immigrants. But, let me rephrase: Immigrants who REFUSE to follow the policies and social mores that made this country great are and will continue to be the ruination of this great country.

Immigrants who wish to remake the USA into their "personal image" of the most likely, backwards, third-world country they are escaping from. have ruined this great nation!

[BearCub]

guess to me The Holy Bible is like a math equation 2 and 2 equals 4 always have always will no matter how many people try to twist it to mean anything else.

Well I think it is important to realize that all faith is a bit irrational. By recognizing this you'll avoid looking like an idiot when arguing with atheists. If you argue from nonsense you'll reinforce their preconceived idea that your faith is totally irrational - which it is not if one considers the external (extra-biblical) evidence that supports it.

Saying the 'Bible is true because it says it's true' is idiotic. Saying "Look at all these things the Bible says & how they are supported by archaeological records, external writings, etc..." makes one's argument a whole lot more sensible.

[ClancyJ]

No, that is the exact way you should have handled it. You did not demand that all conform to your way - you allowed others to say it with the term "under God". See, all are happy that way.

None MADE you say "under God" - you were given the option.

This is not what others are doing now. They are MAKING all conform to their way of thinking and interferring with the free expression of religion as guaranteed by the constitution.

[INSENSITIVE GUY]

I feel so sorry for judge Moore to find out he was surrounded by "JUDAS TIMES 8".I just hope God will send millions of people to fill that void.I just don't see how anyone can respect the courts anymore!

[MineralMan]

"Correction, the Commandments that are the cornerstone of western law are:

Don't kill anybody
Don't lie
Don't steal
Honor your parents
Don't commit adultery"

Actually, the last two you posted aren't encoded in our laws any longer. There's no law about honoring your parents, except when you're a minor, and no enforced laws regarding adultery, except in the UCMJ. Most states have repealed their adultery laws. So, that leaves only three:

Don't lie (at least not under oath)
Don't murder
Don't steal

And those three are in virtually every social system on the planet, regardless of religion.

The Ten Commandments are purely religious in nature.