Alabama SC justices cave, order Ten Commandments removed

AP on Fox News ^ | 8-21-03 | AP on Fox News website

[rwfromkansas]

MONTGOMERY, Ala.

[lugsoul]

One more time, for those who hate the inconvenient facts:

Pearls of wisdom from Judge Roy Moore:

"By leaving religion undefined, the Court has opened the door to the erroneous assumption that, under the Establishment Clause, religion could include Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and whatever might occupy in man's life a place parallel to that filled by God ... In such a case, God and religion are no longer distinguished in meaning, permitting the First Amendment to be used to exclude the very object it was meant to protect, namely the sovereignty of God over civil government."

"Americans are free to worship other Gods only because the Judeo-Christian God, and the Judeo- Christian God alone, allows for freedom of conscience."

“You'll find no documents surrounding the Ten Commandments because they stand alone as an acknowledgment of that God that's contained in our pledge, contained in our motto, and contained in our oath.”

"I have no intention of removing the monument. To do so would, in effect, result in the disestablishment of our system of justice in this state.”

[rwfromkansas]

Prove he violated the establishment clause.

[BamaG]

People like you make me glad that there is a separation of church and state. These judges WILL go to Hades Thanks God, for letting us know that. Any word on whether or not my grandma made it? Also, are not any of the policemen that are arresting the Christians protecting the monument - Christians THEMSELVES? Whoops, looks like they'll join all the bad judges! i> Those officers should REFUSE to arrest the christian protesters if they are christian themselves. It is allowed, it's called civil disobediance.( or would be for a cause the left loves) So laws to be enforced only apply to non Christians? If not, they have no reason to call themselves christians - just hypocrites. Thank God you are not him. This is why religion isn't the law of the land. No room for dissent in your world, no room for laws for that matter. Sheesh. Go back to your cave, Mr. Rudolph

[duckbutt]

Had a friend send this to me via e-mail:

Samuel Thompson wrote:
>
I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December.

> I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his theory of evolution.

> Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game. "But it's a Christian prayer," some will argue. Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles. And we are in the Bible Belt. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect-somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

> If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.

> If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

> If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.
>
> And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit. When in Rome...
>
> "But what about the atheists?" is another argument. What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer. Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.

> Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us just to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying. God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well..........just sue me.

> The silent majority has been silent too long...it's time we let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard, that the vast majority don't care what they want ... it is time the majority rules!

> It's time we tell them, you don't have to pray ... you don't have to say the pledge of allegiance, you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right ... but by golly you are no longer going to take our rights away ... we are
fighting back ... and we WILL WIN! After all the God you have the right to denounce is on our side!

> God bless us one and all, especially those who denounce Him...

> God bless America, despite all her faults ... still the greatest nation of all.....

> God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God...

> May 2003 be the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions.

> Keep looking up...... In God WE Trust

[Zack Nguyen]

But you failed to mention the enormous number of cases where the ACLU threatens small towns with bankruptcy unless they take down the Cross from their town shield, or the Ten Commandments from the town square, or a Nativity Scene. I have been told that this is how they make some of their money - they sue a small town, and then get the court to force payment of their legal bills.

The ACLU are bullies. They pick on those who can't defend themselves.

[DoughtyOne]

As you state, who should know the process better than Moore? I agree with your analysis. That is baffling.

[smith288]

Why a pity?

I think the argument has been debated a thousand times.

[inquest]

As the administrator of the judicial building, Roy Moore's orders have the force of law.

Absolutely no moreso than the administrator of a private building can issue orders with the force of law. One can be arrested for trespass, but not for violating some edict that the administrator announced. For example, if the administrator said no bare feet, you can't be arrested for being on the property with bare feet. But you can be arrested for refusing to leave after the administrator (or owner) kicks you out - whether it's private or public property.

I understand your point that not all law is legislation, but the Chief Justice's actions are not "regulation" in the same sense that the EPA issues regulations.

[DoughtyOne]

One very pertinant religion that Moore left out was Satanism. When that religion is mentioned, it certainly gives his words more meaning in my opinion. While I wouldn't have made the case Moore has here, I'm not in total disagreement with it.

[duckbutt]

Sorry - great minds think alike, I think - - should have read the post above me - - sorry for the double post

[lugsoul]

No - you said it can't be unconstitutional because there is no "law." Using that logic, if a principal bars a Muslim from entering a public school, that is not unconstitutional unless there is legislation authorizing the decision. If the state spends money to hand out the Koran at school, that is not unconstitutional unless there is legislation authorizing the decision. If the a sheriff arrests me for "disturbing the peace" because I am praying on the sidewalk, that is not unconstitutional unless there is a law against praying on the sidewalk.

Either a state actor can violate the Constitution without specific legislation authorizing the behavior, or they can't. You say they can't. Every court in the land says otherwise.

As for your definition of "religion," you sound like Judge Moore. Guess what? A religion is not limited to a formal organization, no matter how much you want to say that it is.

[lugsoul]

Not all laws are criminal laws, inquest.

[missyme]

On the news the other night, they made the comment that Buddhists and Muslims might find the "Ten Commandments" offensive because this is a Judeo-Chrstian Theology WHAT!

Well I guess there right after all nothing about suicide bombers JIHAD and Mohammed, I guess the ACLU might want to ammend the "Ten Commandments"

[DoughtyOne]

Nice

[xrp]

Last time I checked, neither were public schools, but it didn't stop them there.

There's a difference, you CHOOSE to condemn your children to public (real term: government) schools. There are private schooling and homeschooling options available. There is no alternative to the judicial system.

[HurkinMcGurkin]

You aren't seriously questioning why non-Christians or non-Jews might find the Ten Commandments "offensive", are you?

[lugsoul]

The case Moore made is the problem. It is amazing that more people on here don't recognize that, by making these kinds of statements, he was guaranteeing a loss in the case and the very confrontation we now have. He was setting it up.

And don't try to claim that he was just "saying what he believes." When it suited his purposes, he claimed in the 11th Circuit that the purpose of the monument was secular and historical.

[sakic]

my understanding is that he takes orders only from the one true KJV God.

Taliban logic.

[rwfromkansas]

Please prove that Moore is in violation of the law.

Note these requirements for proof:

1. primary source documents of the debate on the First Amendment supporting your position
2. quotes from the founding fathers...beyond personal opinion on religion...indicating support for your position.
3. historical precedent ***starting in 1789 and up to no later than 1900*** that supports your views
4. judicial precedent " "

If you can do this, I will take your opinion seriously and have to seriously consider whether you may be correct.

I won't hold my breath waiting for this evidence, as I know it isn't coming.

[missyme]

How can anybody in there right mind find the Ten Commandments offensive? That is what I am saying