Legal Tragedy for Unemployed Divorced Men & Fathers

[ImFightingMad]

I am writing this to make this Legal Tragedy better known and also in hope that someone could help the thousands of us in this tragic situation.

Like many Americans at this time, I have been laid off. This in itself is bad enough for most Americans, but those of us that have been divorced face a Legal Tragedy that is against The Constitution and all moral concepts. Men are almost exclusively affected by what I am about to tell you. This shows the discrimination of the courts and the laws in this country.

Since I have been laid off, I am only “earning” unemployment insurance, which is only 16.6% of my previous gross income. I therefore cannot pay the alimony and child support that the courts ordered in my divorce in Florida. I do not even have enough money for my own expenses. The courts in Florida are looking at finding me in contempt of court because of non-payment. They would therefore put me in jail along with countless others for the same reason. This makes no legal or moral sense in many ways:

1. If I was still married and got laid off, would the courts care, of course not! The family would have to do what they could to survive. But, since I have been divorced, and there is no relationship anymore, I’m supposed to support them over supporting myself, otherwise go to jail. How does this make any logical, moral or legal sense? Why is it that since I am divorced I have a greater financial responsibility than I ever did when I was married? Why should all of my rights be taken away because I am unemployed now, and yet my ex-wife is suppose to maintain the same or better lifestyle as when I was employed? This again, would not be the case if I were still married. This shows that divorce laws take precedence over basic human rights and are stronger laws than marriage itself, which is a bond with God.

2. If I’m in jail, how am I supposed to find a job? After being in jail, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to ever find a good job again!

3. This type of incarceration was abolished with the 13th Amendment. Which prohibits Involuntary Servitude. Also 8 USCA-56 prohibits Peonage.

Why should my life and other’s be completely destroyed just because we were ever married and now unemployed?

Isn’t the fact that I, and many others have lost our jobs enough of a tragedy in itself? How does completely destroying the rest of our lives solve anything? In this situation, what could any of us ever do to help ourselves?

I was extremely involved in the 2000 Presidential election, supporting George Bush. I lived and worked in Austin, Texas, but I was still a registered voter in Florida. The government and country that I so dearly loved and put so much energy into, has now let me down.

Please Help!

[Riley]

Indeed. I'm bitching tonight but believe me, I'm much better than 8 years ago when only God kept me from being homicidal.

I have read this entire thread with much interest. My last matrimonial involvement was many, many years ago. I was really lucky- all she wanted was out.

Now, I'm thinking twice or three times about getting into that situation again. I have seen all of these things happen to friends of mine- they live on next to nothing in some grubby hovel, working their asses off. The ex-wife alternates between partying and, in one case, sniffing around constantly, looking for evidence that he might have two nickels that she didn't know about. She got EVERYTHING in the divorce as it was.

Screw that. Unless I find a genuine saint with a visible halo, I am never going down that road again. I did everything for the ex. Provided for, defended, loved, ate my anger when she was endlessly crabbing at me and smiled, remembered her birthday, took her on trips, helped with the domestic stuff, bought (yet more) shoes and outfits when our closet was full and she 'didn't have anything to wear', took her back in once after she'd left me and almost become a murder victim when she was staying somewhere else, and on and on and on. I was happy to do it all. Then I kept hearing from other people about what an AH I was, after she left the final time.

No, no more. If I'd had to pay her to be with some other guy, that would have been the last straw. Thank God we didn't have any children together!

This was more than I'd planned to say here, but this thread struck a nerve with me. I have been proposed to(!!) since then by women that I have dated; I have turned them all down. Just don't want to go through it again. Being raped by the legal system on top of it all would be more than I could stand.

IFM, I'll keep you in my prayers.

[kidd]

My sympathies. I've had a similar but not as severe situation. Some cold facts:

1. Suicide will make you a loser. You will prove nothing to anyone - not even sympathetic divorced-father-Freepers. You will not prove what you want to prove.

2. Stay out of jail. Look around the internet for divorced father organizations. Seek the advice of someone who will keep your confidence - even a priest. There have been a lot of good suggestions here on the FR, such as making even a minimal payment. Do everything that you can to get the child support and alimony reduced. I haven't heard that you've appealled anything. However running away is not an answer - you will lose your own self-respect, your children's respect, and you may get caught.

3. Accept a lower lifestyle for the time being. The economy runs in cycles.

4. Your kids welfare (even if your ex has poisoned their minds) is more important than your own. Get a job, even if it is half of your old pay. Lose any pride that you might have.

5. Need some light at the end of the tunnel? Remember that your kids are male - and they will probably go through the same crap as you someday in one form or another. It is at that time that they will realize who their mother really is. And if you're alive, out of jail and busting your butt - you will have their respect at their mother's expense.

[Vicki]

Do you honestly believe that the court will allow my child support payments to stay at the same level?

My ex-husband married a woman with a considerable income and my support was reduced! Amazing, but true. A judge in my state may consider the wife's income and assets.

It wasn't like I had a huge income or assets. The children visited their Dad frequently, so that wasn't an issue either.

[familyop]

"5. Need some light at the end of the tunnel? Remember that your kids are male - and they will probably go through the same crap as you someday in one form or another. It is at that time that they will realize who their mother really is. And if you're alive, out of jail and busting your butt - you will have their respect at their mother's expense."

ImFightingMad:

Listen to "kidd," especially on the above, "imfightingmad."
I've seen this happen for quite a few. It is very likely
and common. Even many sons whose mothers were man hating
social workers, psychs., lawyers and writers have had to
reject their mothers (in cases where the mothers implied
it would be she or dad--not both) to go back to their
fathers.

Hang in there, man!

There is a divorced doctor gathering other divorced men
for the purpose of a mass hunger strike this fall. I
disagreed with him, telling him that we could really use
his and his friends' talents. He's a good writer. But
he would have none of it. They have over a dozen men
for that, so far, and appear to be going through with
it.

*Don't go their way.* You have skills that we can use to
make the big change, and we will prevail. Our children
will be proud, someday. "Someday" does come. "Someday"
is the way of the greatest men on our planet. If you go
away, we will be one man short of maximum strength. Stay
with us.

If you want to talk to other men about this on a
regular basis (and help to make the change), pop a Free
Republic mail (see the top, right of the "browse"
page behind the "browse" link at the top, left of this
page) to me. I'll refer you to an e-mail list.

[Savage Beast]

Once I knew a divorced woman who was living, with her children, in a lesbian relationship and exploiting her former husband mercilessly. She boasted that when he told her he was moving to another state she said to him, "Well I hope you'll be successful, because the more you earn the more I'll receive."

I have known more than one divorced woman who lived, unmarried, with a man while receiving alimony from the former husband.

[familyop]

PING ImFightingMad

Oops, forgot to reply to your username.
Read post 324.

[Mark17]

I would consider emigrating to another country.

I am doing exactly that, for exactly these reasons.

[undeniable logic]

If your wife lost her job, she would still be responsible for her expenses without extra help from you. If you have to get three jobs at McDonalds, Home Depot, etc to meet your obligations, hop to it. You should only be expected to do what your ex is expected to do if she is in the same situation.

I disagree with this, because according to my understanding, alimony and child support is determined by income at the time of separation. What if the husband was making 150k (internet boom) and was forced to pay 40k in alimony and child support - if he was making 50k, he may only be responsible for 15-20k. In today's economy, with the overall reduction in wages, is it reasonable to expect him to continue to pay the 40k, even though his wages may have dropped to 40k? I don't think so...

Finally, I can understand why the husband should be required to pay his fair share of child support, but I do not understand the necessity of paying alimony - why does he remain responsible for the expenses of the ex-wife? Unless during the marriage, they had agreed that she would stay at home and thus, her ability to earn income was adversely affected, I do not understand why the man remains responsible for supporting the woman...

[cherry]

"that's what happens when men don't vote as a group"

what exactly would men vote for?.....

[Yaelle]

I don't have time to read all the posts so this may have already been suggested.

Your situation sounds horrible, but if your ex-wife never complains, I would imagine the courts would never know. Surely this woman with whom you have children will understand your situation and accept whatever you can give, even if it's nothing, for a while.

I was divorced and I agreed to a pittance of child support. I also waived in the divorce docs all claim to any future wages and promised I would never go through the legal system in any way to collect. I told my son's dad that it was up to his own conscience to give whatever he wanted. He has never missed a payment, which is wonderful considering he lives halfway around the world and sees his son less than once a year.

I am not saying that divorced spouses don't deserve fair child support. I do think that everyone needs to be understanding, though. In my case, custody was far more important than money.

I feel for you. I hope your powers of gentle persuasion will be enough to stop your ex from seeking to throw you in jail, which surely is not good for her children.

Prayers for you that you should make a decent living soon.

[cherry]

"Better yet, if you want kids, go to Asia and marry. The women are feminine (consult your dictionary), beautiful, agreeable (consult your dictionary), and don't have cellulite. "

I bet you would be offended if I turned this around and said that "better yet, girls, if you want kids, go get a black guy.....the men are real men, strong, virile, great athletes, and they don't have cellulite, and of coures there is that "added" benefit....

[cherry]

"Move to Kansas. Child support is not enforced in this state. When it is put in a court order, it is only for the minimum wage level (5 kids on less than $300 a month)."

YIPPEE!!!!.....yes, forget about those dang kids....they don't deserve your support Daddy, now do they....

but don't let it get out that men would move out of state or even the country to avoid supporting their children...it would give that "mensrights" guy who posts here a headache....

afterall, he believes that men actually love their children just as much as the moms....

[cherry]

"I simply refuse to be hogtied by a woman who resembles a shrew. And that seems to be most of 'em, after the 'la-la' stage."

suddenly it occurs to me that you might prefer another gender.....

[cherry]

"I simply refuse to be hogtied by a woman who resembles a shrew. And that seems to be most of 'em, after the 'la-la' stage."

suddenly it occurs to me that you might prefer another gender.....

[cherry]

" "Why would she stay married if she can have all that and not be bothered with him?" was the general consensus. And, yes there was a 3 year old child involved."

I can't begin to understand women, even being one, and so many times I am just ashamed of my gender...

in cases like the one you stated, I think some of these wives are just "trophies" and have no loyalty let alone love for the one who bought the trophy....

[SauronOfMordor]

My ex is all of these things and the 70% non-custodian who never paid support. Her answer? Lie to the system about "threatening" which is Domestic Violence and get the kid back so you can get paid!!!

Lying about "domestic violence" is easier when the spouse is non-violent. Reporting true domestic violence is less likely when you have utter certainty that reporting him will cause him to track you down, cut you open, and strangle you with your own intestines.

[SauronOfMordor]

Pre-nuptuals can be unenforcible, dpending on the state and the circumstances (I researched this for another thread). A lot of courts can toss pre-nups as "not in the public interests", and a pre-nup limiting child-support is unlikely to be paid attention to

[USMMA_83]

You wrote..."afterall, he believes that men actually love their children just as much as the moms....

You actully believe the love mothers give is more than the love dads give? I'm sorry you didn't have a dad that loved you, but please realize that dad's around the world would lay down their life for their children.

Another thing, your bias shows volumes about your political makeup. In your sentence quoted above, you mention men as "men", and women as "moms". Sad!

[StatesEnemy]

"I simply refuse to be hogtied by a woman who resembles a shrew. And that seems to be most of 'em, after the 'la-la' stage."

suddenly it occurs to me that you might prefer another gender.....

Nope... though sometimes I think it would be easier if I was.

[mlmr]

NO, she contributed half when she was married and when he divorced her she went back to work and contributed most of the income...which was not much....to her children.