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The Pleistocene Extinction
atlantisquest ^

Posted on 07/25/2003 7:32:42 PM PDT by ckilmer

PALEONTOLOGICAL TESTIMONY

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The Pleistocene Extinction

Paleontologists the world over know that something catastrophic happened to the large mammals roaming the world during the Pleistocene Epoch. Woolly mammoths, mastodons, toxodons, sabre-toothed tigers, woolly rhinos, giant ground sloths, and many other large Pleistocene animals are simply no longer with us. In fact, well over 200 species of animals (involving millions of individuals) totally disappeared at the end of the Pleistocene some 10,000-12,000 years ago in what is known to Paleontologists as the Pleistocene Extinction (Click for table).

Moreover, there is evidence of large geological changes which took place, such as massive volcanism, numerous earthquakes, tidal waves, to say nothing of the glacial melting which raised sea-levels several hundred feet worldwide. It's beginning to look like the Pleistocene Epoch didn't tippy-toe out silently, but rather ended with a large roar. Geologists and Paleontologists have an innate distaste for catastrophism, and that's understandable. Catastrophists, who in the beginning were identifying every strata of sediment with a worldwide flood, layer upon layer, almost totally discredited the field of geology--and uniformitarianism pulled the science out of the fire. But now, scientists in both fields are gradually realizing that both catastrophism and uniformitarianism (or gradualism) are at work in nature, and that everything can't be explained using one or the other alone (Gould, 1975). One of the indicators of the end of the Pleistocene 12,000 years ago is the huge numbers of frozen carcasses in both hemispheres: Canada and Alaska in the western, and Northern Russian and Siberia in the eastern.

THE AMERICAN REMAINS

Back in middle 1940s Dr. Frank C. Hibben, Prof. of Archeology at the University of New Mexico mounted an expedition to Alaska to look for human remains. The remains he found were not human, but what he found was anything but evidence of gradualism or uniformitarianism. Instead he found miles of muck filled with the remains of mammoth, mastodon, several kinds of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions. Just north of Fairbanks, Hibbens and his associates watched as bulldozers pushed the half-melted muck into sluice boxes for the extraction of gold. Animal tusks and bones rolled up in front of the blades "like shavings before a giant plane". The carcasses were found in all attitudes of death, most of them "pulled apart by some unexplainable prehistoric catastrophic disturbance" (Hibben, 1946).

The evidence of the violence of nature combined with the stench of rotting carcasses was staggering. The ice fields containing these remains stretched for hundred of miles in every direction (Hibben, 1946). Trees and animals, layers of peat and mosses, twisted and mangled together like some giant mixer had jumbled them some 10,000 years ago, and then froze them into a solid mass (Sanderson, 1960). The evidence immediately suggests an enormous tidal wave which raged over the land, tumbling animals and vegetation within its mass, which was then quick-frozen. But the extinction is not limited to the Arctic.

Paleontologist George G. Simpson considers the extinction of the Pleistocene horse in north America to be one of the most mysterious episodes in zoological history, admitting that in all honesty no one knows the answer. He also admits that this is only a part of the larger problem of the extinction of many other species in America at the same time (Simpson, 1961). The horse is merely the tip of the iceberg: giant tortoises living in the Caribbean Sea, the giant sloth, the sabre-toothed tiger, the glyptodont and toxodon. These were all tropical animals. They weren't wiped out because Alaska and Siberia were experiencing an Ice Age. "Unless one is willing to postulate freezing temperatures across the equator, such an explanation clearly begs the question," say leading Paleontologists (Martin & Guilday, 1967).

Woolly rhinoceros, giant armadillos, giant beavers, giant jaguars, ground sloths, antelopes and scores of other entire species were all totally wiped out at the end of the Pleistocene. Massive piles of mastodon and sabre-toothed tiger bones were discovered in Florida (Valentine, 1969), while mastodons, toxodons, giant sloths and other animals were found in Venesuala quick-frozen among the mountain glaciers (Berlitz, 1969). All died at about the same time, roughly 12,000 years ago.

FROZEN ANIMALS IN SIBERIA

The picture in Siberia and northern Europe is no different. Just north of Siberia whole islands are formed of the bones of Pleistocene animals swept northward from the continent into the frigid waters of the Arctic Ocean. It has been estimated that some ten million animals lay buried along the rivers of northern Siberia. Thousands of tusks formed a massive ivory trade for the master carvers of China, all from the remains of the frozen mammoths and mastodons of Siberia. The famous Beresovka mammoth first drew attention to the preserving properties of being quick-frozen when buttercups were found in its mouth. This was no gradual event--it had to be sudden!

And the event was worldwide. The mammoths of Siberia became extinct about the same time as the giant rhinoceros of Europe; the mastodons of Alaska and the bison of Siberia ended simultaneously. The same is true of the Asian elephants and the American camels. The cause of these extinctions must be common to both hemispheres. If the coming of glacial conditions was gradual, it would not have cause the extinctions, because the various animals could have simply migrated to where conditions were better. What is seen here is total surprise, and uncontrolled violence (Leonard, 1979).

Geologists are once more becoming divided on the issue of catastrophism. A few are breaking away from their hard stand of the past, and are at looking at the problem with more of an open mind. Mr. Harold P. Lippman seems to be objective when he admits that the magnitude of fossils and tusks encased in the Siberian permafrost present an "insuperable difficulty" to the theory of uniformitarianism, since no gradual process can result in the preservation of tens of thousands of tusks and whole individuals, "even if they died in winter" (Lippman, 1962). Especially when many of these individuals have undigested grasses and leaves in their belly.

Certain misguided workers have vainly suggested that man was the cause of all this death and destruction. In the first place, the remains of the animals out number the remains of man a million to one. There is no way the populations of man could have killed this many animals. Some Pleistocene bone sites obviously represent the efforts of Big Game Hunters: fire was sometimes used to drive a herd of animals over a cliff or into a bog to be slaughtered for food. In these instances, the hand of man is rather obvious. Prof. N. K. Vereschagin of the then Soviet Union states bluntly: "The accumulation of mammoth bones and carcasses of mammoth, rhinoceros, and bison found in frozen ground in Indigirka, Lolyma, and Novosibirsk bear no traces of hunting of primitive man" (Vereschagin, 1967).

UNIVERSAL DEATH IN 10,000 B.C.

Charles Darwin, the famous naturalist, was shocked by the extinction of species at the close of the Pleistocene. He writes: "The extinction of species has been involved in the most gratuitous mystery . . . no one can have marvelled more than I have at the extinction of species" (Darwin, 1859). He declared that for whole species to be destroyed in Southern Patagonia, in Brazil, in the mountain ranges of Peru, and in North America up to the Bering Straits, one must "shake the entire framework of the globe".

Watching them cut the huge block of muck filled ice containing the mammoth remains on the recent "Discovery" TV special helped me realize: if a woolly mammoth standing out in the grasslands of central Asia were to suddenly die, for whatever reason, his body would simply rot and the scavangers would pick the bones clean. The only way for this to have happened would be for the mammoth to either fall in a lake or pond and drown or be swept into this mass of vegetation, insects and mud by a massive wave of water. Under which of these two scenarios would such an animal be quick-frozen? His hair and skin were still intact--even the food in his stomach!

Even the Pleistocene geologist William R. Farrand of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory, who is opposed to catastrophism in any form, states: "Sudden death is indicated by the robust condition of the animals and their full stomachs . . . the animals were robust and healthy when they died" (Farrand, 1961). Neither in his article nor in his letters of rebuttal does Farrand ever face the reality of worldwide catastrophe represented by the millions of bones deposited all over this planet right at the end of the Pleistocene.

Some geologists may be softening their traditional stand against axial tilts and other rotational variations which could be the cause of world catastrophies. Dr. J. R. Heirtzler of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory observed that there has been "a revival of a 30-year-old theory that the glacial ages were caused by changes in the tilt of the earth's axis . . . there is clear evidence that large earthquakes occur at about the same time as certain changes in the earth's rotational motion." He goes on to say: "Whatever the mechanism of these changes, it is not hard to believe that similar changes in the earth's axial motion in times past could have caused major earthquake and mountain-building activity (see my Archeology page: Tiahuanacu) and could even have caused the magnetic field to flip" (Heirtzler, 1968). It has also been found that the end of the Pleistocene was attended by rampant volcanic activity (Hibben, 1946).

More recently Prof. Stephen Jay Gould, professor of geology at Harvard University, after studying the geological and paleontological record intensively, has championed the cause for open-minded consideration of catastrophism and uniformitarianism. He concludes that both concepts are represented equally in the geological record (Gould, 1977). Prof. Hibben appears to sum up the situation in a single statement: "The Pleistocene period ended in death. This was no ordinary extinction of a vague geological period which fizzled to an uncertain end. This death was catastrophic and all inclusive" (Hibben, 1946).

So it seems we have the end of the Ice Age, the Pleistocene extinction, the end of the Upper Paleolithic (Magdalenian, Perigordian and all others), and the close of the "reign of the gods" in Manetho, all on roughly the same date - 10,000 B.C. It appears to me that the evidence, when all of it is taken into full consideration, points to a worldwide catastrophe, from whatever cause, which occurred at the close of the Pleistocene Epoch (roughly 10,000 B.C.) And this is about the date Plato gives for the sinking of Atlantis.

TOP of Page Bibliography

Berlitz, Charles, "The Mystery of Atlantis," New York, 1969. Farrand, William R., "Frozen Mammoths and Modern Geology," Science, Vol.133, No. 3455, March 17, 1961. Heirtzler, J. R., "Sea-floor spreading," Scientific American, Vol. 219, No. 6, December 1968. Gould, Stephen Jay, "Catastrophies and Steady State Earth," Natural History, Vol. LXXXIV, No. 2, February 1975. Gould, Stephen Jay, "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, Vol. LXXXVII, No. 5, May 1977. Hibben, Frank, "The Lost Americans," Thomas & Crowell Co., New York, 1946. Leonard, R. Cedric, Appendix A in "A Geological Study of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," Special Paper No. 1, Cowen Publ., Bethany, 1979. Lippman, Harold E., "Frozen Mammoths," Physical Geology, New York, 1969. Martin, P. S. & Guilday, J. E., "Bestiary for Pleistocene Biologists," Pleistocene Extinction, Yale University, 1967. Sanderson, Ivan T., "Riddle of the Frozen Giants," Saturday Evening Post, No. 39, January 16, 1960. Simpson, George G., "Horses," New York, 1961. Vereshchagin, N. K., "Primitive Hunters and Pleistocene Extinction in the Soviet Union," Pleistocene Extinction (P. S. Martin & H. E. Wright, J., editors), New Haven, 1967.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: archaeology; catastrophism; extinction; florida; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; iceage; paleontology; pleistocene; verobeach; veroman
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To: Battle Axe
Earth's mass is increasing from the cosmic dust, aka ether lint, continually dropping in, such as sand grain sized shooting stars, smaller and larger.

A passing planetoid could rock us off the tilt or suck away some atmosphere. Any such gravitational pull could ripple our crust unleashing all kinds of fire & brimstone and gasses for world wide fatalities. Some speculation is the "super storm" with 200-300+ mph winds and continent sized storms; only little guys which can duck into shelter could survive.

What is interesting is that we are now just beginning to be able to do real primary research when the pantheistic human guilt trip religion of "global warming" has formalized.

No matter what happens or how sudden the catastrophe, those who can respond to change and make babies doing it may well survive in greater numbers or at least enjoy getting lucky with some ladies that think your the man while you all die. "Ladies, I did my best. Let's snuggle for another round."

Food, shelter, and protection. Aside from the trappings of modern mankind, ladies like a guy who can save their lives and keep them with child. Be a real Boy Scout. Be prepared. Be lucky. Get lucky.

Nearer to home, go get that extra 1,000 rounds for your VRWC Homeland Security arm, a true Patriot Act. How did you think that you could protect yourfuture harem while some 5 billion humans die around y'all.
81 posted on 07/26/2003 9:23:34 PM PDT by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: SevenDaysInMay
Good advice all, but here's the best. Get the hell out of Dodge before the sh*t hits the fan. It's the urban zones that would be "Road Warrior" if there is any major upset.
82 posted on 07/26/2003 9:27:43 PM PDT by djf
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To: RadioAstronomer
Interesting to see a different crowd tackle age old problems.
83 posted on 07/26/2003 9:33:52 PM PDT by js1138
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To: js1138
Interesting to see a different crowd tackle age old problems.

It sure is!

84 posted on 07/26/2003 9:42:46 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: djf
Trouble is, in the northern hemisphere, there's only one point in the sky that never moves. But it ain't dark. A very bright star called Polaris sits there.

Polaris was not the Pole Star when the Pyramids were built. (Over a period of several years, there's no point that never moves.)

85 posted on 07/26/2003 9:56:24 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
You're probably right. I know about the precession of the zodiac. Don't know. Is a star able to move say, a degree, in 3,000 years? Seems like a pretty high amount of motion to me. 100,000 years, I could understand.
86 posted on 07/26/2003 10:07:06 PM PDT by djf
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To: djf
The precession of the Earth's pole has a cycle of about 26,000 years. Hipparchus knew about this about 2000 years ago.
87 posted on 07/26/2003 10:46:07 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
I'll check it in my copy of Flammarion...
88 posted on 07/26/2003 10:54:35 PM PDT by djf
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To: Battle Axe
"My feelings have always been that a comet knocked the earth off its axis, flung it further away from the sun, the force left the envelope of air behind (we lost some)and the earth had to recover in a colder, less oxygenated, less moist situation.
Any takers?"

No, No, No, you got it all wrong!!!!

The extinction occurred due to changes in the specification for automobiles thus allowing for the rise to prominence of the prehistoric S.U.V. which caused global warming and made all the animals sad so they died....

Err... no, wait, I mean the extinction occurred because of all the freon leaked out of the outdated and inefficient prehistoric Air conditioners and refrigerators which caused the ozone to be depleted and made all the animals sad so they died....

Err... no, wait, I mean the extinction occurred because all the cows farted...

89 posted on 07/26/2003 11:03:24 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
You're quite right. Flammarion shows that about 2500 years ago, the closest to being a pole star was Alpha Draconis. Interesting, 13,000 years ago, Vega was the pole star!
90 posted on 07/26/2003 11:05:53 PM PDT by djf
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To: djf
Reading further, he says: "The Egyptians, who built their pyramids with admirable science nearly fifty centuries ago, designed galleries which penetrated the interior in the direction of the north pole and at an inclination of 27 degrees to the horizon, which is precisely the altitude which the pole star (alpha draconis) reached at its inferior crossing of the meridian at the latitude of Giza"

I got 2 much 2 rede.
91 posted on 07/26/2003 11:14:11 PM PDT by djf
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To: Atlantin; RadioAstronomer; js1138
Quote from Atlantin:"Subduction zones are concepts postulated by professors who are not versed in physics. They make no sense. Try to make whipped cream plunge into and below the ice cream in a sundae. It makes no sense given the difference in density of crustal elements and lower levels and the fragility of the crust not to mention the absence of an energy source to power such a plunge. A better term for it is Subduction Myth. Empirical evidence of such zones is also lacking."

Sigh...Democrats and Liberals have done their jobs well. Not only do we have a nation of non-thinkers, but they now go so far as to deny the existence of empirical evidence. For those who still have a few functional synapses, I present the following empirical evidence (obtained by Geophysicists) of SUBDUCTION ZONES:

Subduction zone studies - An introduction to the subject with many links.

Delaunay representation of slabs

3D simultaneous seismic refraction and reflection tomography of wide-angle data from the central Chilean margin

Andean Continental Research Program to image an active subduction - My personal favorite, with good images of seismic reflections of a subduction zone

92 posted on 07/26/2003 11:43:14 PM PDT by Aracelis (Oh, evolve!)
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To: djf
Where to start. Hmmmmmm....

The Earth is tilted on its axis from the plane of the ecliptic by 23.5 degrees. That tilt causes the North Pole to be currently pointed towards Polaris. As the Earth moves around the sun its pole stays pointed at Polaris. This is the cause of the seasons we experience. Note. This tilt varies back and forth from 21.6 degrees to 24.5 degrees approximately every 41,000 years.

There is also a precession of our pole and it sweeps a complete circle in the sky (think of the Earth as a top wobbling as it rotates) about every 26,000 years. (Hard to explain without a diagram)

There are also a number of other motions that must be taken into effect over the years such as the precession of the aphelion. Our Earth’s orbit around the Sun is not a perfect circle. It is an ellipse with the closest point of the orbit called the perihelion and the furthest point the aphelion. Currently the aphelion falls on the fourth of July. However, this is not always the case. The aphelion and perihelion change over the centuries and sweeps thru the calendar year with a periodicity of around 22,000 years. The amount of “squishing” (LOL now that’s a scientific term) of an ellipse is called its eccentricity. Note; the Earth's eccentricity is very small. However, even this changes over time. Its eccentricity varies periodically about every 100,000 years.

There are also other motions caused by the Moon, Jupiter and the Sun called Nutations. One of the major nutations has a period of 18.6 years. (There are others that must be computed as well when flying a spacecraft)

Now that we have that out of the way, we will now describe the Celestial Sphere. If we look at the stars in the night sky they appear to be stationary relative to each other. Even with the Earth moving from one side of the Sun to the other, the displacement due to parallax is less than one second of arc even for the closest star. One way of looking at this, is a fixed sphere of stars surrounding the Earth/Sun system. This is often referred to as the Celestial Sphere.

However, over time the stars do move relative to each other and relative to the Earth. This is why the right ascension and declination (star location) changes over the years. If you look at a star catalogue based on the epoch B1950 and one base on the epoch J2000, you will find a difference.

Another interesting item of note is that the constellations we see are made up of the brightest stars. Even in the same constellation these stars are at different distances from the Earth. Some may be dimmer than the others, however, being closer they are just as bright as a larger one further away. The brightness of a star is called its magnitude. There are two ways astronomers measure magnitude. Apparent Magnitude and Absolute Magnitude.

The Apparent Magnitude is how bright a star appears to us hear on the Earth.

The Absolute Magnitude is how bright a star would appear if it were exactly ten parsecs away from the Earth. (Close to 33 light years).

Two notes:

1) Apparent magnitude is usually denoted with a small “m” and absolute magnitude uses a capital “M”.

2) The magnitude scale is backwards of what you might think; the larger the number the fainter the object.

WOW, now that we got thru all of that, we see that the stellar positions and our relationships to them vary over the centuries.

93 posted on 07/27/2003 12:17:21 AM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: RadioAstronomer
Thank you. Considering I spent alot of my winter evenings in upstate New York with a telescope as a youngster, I've heard of most of this. I thought that when he spoke of Polaris not being the pole star, he was talking about relative motion. But Flammarion has a very nice diagram showing the cirular path of the pole during the 23,000 year cycle. And I remember a few years ago, when they discovered that star (was it Bernard's star?) that had the highest relative motion of any star yet discovered.
My whole point on this thread is that it has only been recently, in historical times, that science has accepted the fact that continents can move. And I have to confess that I am a pole-shift theory advocate, because all of the evidence points towards something that modern science can't explain. And I have been to Northwest Ontario, near Hudson Bay, and it looks to me like it is only now recovering from the ice cap. Hundreds of thousands of these little pothole lakes, the average elevation there must be only a foot or so, thousands of square miles of no distinguishing topography at all, except for the skeeters!
Regards,
djf
94 posted on 07/27/2003 1:02:20 AM PDT by djf
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To: RadioAstronomer
And when I speak of "pole-shift", I'm not saying the Earth suddenly flips over, the angular momentum is far to great. I'm speaking of some type of rapid, large crustal displacement, the astronomical pole would stay the same, but worldwide, except for antipodal nodes, the latitudes would change.
95 posted on 07/27/2003 1:29:39 AM PDT by djf
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Comment #96 Removed by Moderator

To: Atlantin
Your sources are more of the same BS that has been driven into the heads of IGNORANT and possibly STUPID university students for the past 50+ years. And, you use insult and call into question the intelligence of anyone disagreeing with what you have found on a ( probable ) google search. Talk about a lack of "synapses." You take the cake.

What a charmer! Tell me, did you attend the G3K School of Affrontery? If you did, you must have aced the coursework.

As far as your pseudoscience, you are welcome to it. I have no use for anyone who answers legitimate scientific evidence with a temper tantrum.

97 posted on 07/27/2003 1:54:09 AM PDT by Aracelis (If you cannot evolve, have the decency to depart)
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To: djf
I've seen some stuff on the positioning of the ancient pyraminds vis a vis the stars. from what I gather due to the recession of the equinox the relative positioning of the stars like polaris is not where it was 4500 years ago.
the roman mythra cult was dedicated to the recession of the equinox. I think the recession was first noted about 200-300 bc and it seemed like some godlike power was turning the celestial sphere to the geocentric greco romans.
98 posted on 07/27/2003 6:47:23 AM PDT by ckilmer
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To: Atlantin
In your 'expanding earth' hypothesis, how is the formation of diamondiferous kimberlites accounted for?
99 posted on 07/27/2003 7:43:26 AM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: Atlantin; Cuttnhorse
4) The Peru-Chile Trench. Where are the accumulated scrapings of oceanic sediments stripped off this 7000 km of oceanic lithosphere as it was driven down below the continental crust in the past 50 million years? They are not there. Some parts of the trench are empty and other parts the turbidite fill in the trench is derived from the land to the east and is quite different from the deep-sea oozes that should have piled up if subduction was a fact.

Cuttn, when you get back to your mining job in Chile, would you take a few and 'splain the local geology?

100 posted on 07/27/2003 7:50:00 AM PDT by null and void
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