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Unpatriotic Conservatives -- A war against America. MANDATORY READ -- DETAILS PALEOCONSERVATIVES
National Review On-Line ^ | March 19, 2003 | David Frum

Posted on 07/24/2003 11:10:24 AM PDT by PhiKapMom

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To: Captain Kennit
Yeah, that has me pretty much on the outs with the "neos", too.
181 posted on 07/24/2003 2:58:43 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (© 2003, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: My2Cents
Nope, I was not there and doubt you were present either.

So, we can both choose the story that we each prefer to believe. The character of Mr. Frum only leads me conclude he is not overly trustworthy.

The President usually speaks pretty glowingly of those who leave on good terms (Ari Fiescher comes to mind)...Frum seems to have shuffled off pretty much in the dead of night with not so much as a "don't let the door hit ya' in the a$$" from the President.
182 posted on 07/24/2003 2:59:10 PM PDT by mr.pink
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To: Captain Kennit
It is highly ironic that a Canadian neo-conservative, not even a conservative himself, has the unmitigated gall to defame such conservative stalwarts as Pat Buchanan and Bob Novak. Disgusting, really.

You hit the Bulls Eye right there: "a Canadian neo-conservative, not even a conservative himself".

This warped bunch of wild-eyed political zealots are only interested in one thing and one thing only--POWER. Most Neo-Cons could care less about conservatism, and only reluctantly pay lip service to it if it achieves a certain political end. They are the terminates of the Republican Party.

These conservatives are relatively few in number, but their ambitions are large. They aspire to reinvent conservative ideology:--David Frum

LOL. I had to read this passage by Frum twice because it describes his own Neo-Cons so well. Seems that Frum couldn’t resist reaching into Slick Willie's bag of propaganda tricks when he purposefully attached the REAL story about his Neo-CONS to Patriotic Conservatives. Truth is, the neo-con contingent is a mile wide and an inch deep within the greater republican/conservative ranks.

We should not get too worked up by the propaganda of the Neo-Cons. They are guaranteed to self-destruct in the next decade for the simple reason that their body politic is a Byzantine mix of contradictory positions, misguided initiatives and naked ambition that have little coherence or bearing in reality.

I look forward to waving off this malicious and disingenuous element of the Republican Party when their house of cards comes crashing down.

183 posted on 07/24/2003 3:00:53 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: Petruchio
Perhaps. I'm not unsympathetic to the argument. But those who attacked us on 9/11 were here legally, were they not? (Seriously, I've forgotten what their status was; but they weren't the run-of-the-mill illegal immigrant.)
184 posted on 07/24/2003 3:02:34 PM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: Jim Robinson
...to totally reject the evils of liberalism/socialism/marxism and to do as much as possible to block them from holding office and to do all in our power to cause a complete turnover, ie, eliminate as many liberals/abobortionists/homosexualists/traitors, etc, as possible from the elected government and from the judiciary ---then you are a FReeper.

And if one doesn't entirely agree does this mean they are not welcome here or cannot carry the Conservative banner in accordance with their own vision of freedom? I believe in freedom and personal responsibility and consistency requires me to realize that some people will choose to exercise their freedoms in ways I may or you may abhor. I will think long and hard about any "license" to exclude...that is a vicious tool of the left.

185 posted on 07/24/2003 3:03:39 PM PDT by Dolphy
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To: Captain Kennit
"The vast majority of Americans agree with Buchanan on immigration. A majority agree with him on affirmative action. A majority agree with him on school prayer. There are few issues that most Americans DON'T agree with him on. Perhaps one is Buchanan's view on Middle Eastern affairs, where he urges neutrality. On that, it's probably about 50-50.

I agree with the Immigration, Affirmative action and School prayer, but beyond that I draw the line. Seems I remember Buchanan being more Anti-Israel(Somewhere here is a thread with Buchanan pretty much declaring that stance), along with his Pro-Arab/Muslim stand. It's kind of funny though, Until 9-11 I actually thought Buchanan was ok(Lamestream media overload), amazing what joining FR will teach you.

186 posted on 07/24/2003 3:07:12 PM PDT by JustAnAmerican
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To: mr.pink
Frum was a lower-level staff functionary. His departure didn't warrant any comment by the President; the contrast with Ari's departure isn't valid. I only go by what I read. And the only person who said that Frum left on the White House's bad side was Robert Novak, who himself has sparred with Frum, giving him an axe to grind against him.
187 posted on 07/24/2003 3:09:08 PM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: Jim Robinson
I've decided that most 3rd party enthusiasts are that percentage of people on this planet that will not allow themselves to ever be happy or hopeful. Their purpose in life is to grumble, bitch and moan.

They don't want to be like the Maytag repairman, with no job or problem requiring their superior knowledge (cough, cough). That is what they thrive on.

Imagine if they had all they claim to want.........they would shrivel up and die.

I think they ought to seriously consider calling themselves the Contrarians. Their motto can be "Semper Acidus" (Always Bleak).

188 posted on 07/24/2003 3:10:29 PM PDT by Southflanknorthpawsis (If you keep beating around the bush, you only get dizzy)
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To: L,TOWM
I'm sorry, I suck.....
189 posted on 07/24/2003 3:14:38 PM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (...ignorance can be fixed, but stupid is forever...)
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
Acidic -- no, basic. A strong base. The lye that when cooked with a fat makes the bar we use each day to clean ourselves.

You're very apt with that Maytag Repairman bit though.

190 posted on 07/24/2003 3:20:10 PM PDT by bvw
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To: My2Cents
Frum was a lower-level staff functionary.

A low level functionary who's wife "list mailed" an email boasting of her hubby coining the phrase "axis of evil". A low level functionary who was the very first person to decide to cash in on his job by writing a book about GWB's WH. A new arrival from canada with the chutzpah to challenge the patriotism of people who merely disagreed with his concept of redefined conservatism.

To sum it up, the guy was pretty much the antithesis of everything the President is, and appreciates.

A real class act that Mr. Frum.
191 posted on 07/24/2003 3:20:13 PM PDT by mr.pink
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To: My2Cents
Frum, from what I have seen, is an intellectual joke. He would certainly be no match for Robert Novak.

The long rant posted would be an interesting assignment for a College Philosophy or English class: The object to identify the most logical fallacies provided. It is very obviously written not to understand the different nuances of Conservatism, but to smear those who disagree with a particular policy--almost a one issue rant, at that. But the answer to those with whom he disagrees is almost never to answer their arguments, rather to smear their motives. It is impossible to believe that the writer has a truly Conservative bone in his body. (Of course, if he were a Conservative, he probably would have staid in Canada, and fought the Leftists trying to turn Canada into an asexual Third World Nation.)

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

192 posted on 07/24/2003 3:29:06 PM PDT by Ohioan
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To: bvw
I've lived long enough to accept that there are some personalities that wake up every day looking for what is wrong.

It's a whole mindset and it is different than merely having a discerning intellect. Rarely are they going about actually tending to their perceived wrongs; they are too busy talking about it and pointing the finger of blame.

They love to hate; hate to love and are very happy to be unhappy, day in/day out.

Think about it. What would the Contrarians have to do with their time if they weren't upset? The answer is that no one or nothing will ever satisfy them. It just isn't in the cards and they choose to be miserable.

193 posted on 07/24/2003 3:31:38 PM PDT by Southflanknorthpawsis (If you keep beating around the bush, you only get dizzy)
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To: mr.pink
Well, it wasn't a "boast," it was in fact true. He did pen the "axis of evil" phrase. It was bad form on her part, but Frum had already decided to leave the White House before his wife "boasted" via email. The timing of her ill-conceived email, and Frum's departure opened the door for Novak to imply that the departure was other than voluntary. Novak is a petty backstabber on this one, I think.

Is it a crime to write a book about one's experience working for the President? The book, in fact, was highly complementary to President Bush (have you read it? -- it's actually quite good), yet it was also honest, I thought -- but overall positive. He's a writer. One can't fault him for writing a book -- it's what he does.

I admit that I haven't read Frum's comments on Hagel, so I can't comment on whether he did or didn't impune the Senator's patriotism. But the fact Frum's from Canada doesn't disqualify him from expressing his opinion. In fact, one could look at it this way: Frum chose to come the US; Hagel enjoys being a US citizen by the "accident" of birth. Frum made a conscious decision to live and work here. That qualifies him to enjoy the freedoms to express his opinion, even if that opinion expresses opposition to a U.S. Senator's views.

194 posted on 07/24/2003 3:33:00 PM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: Ohioan
Given his odious comments about Pat Buchanan and other paleoconservatives, I don't doubt Mr. Frum would have any objection to Canada turning into a Third World nation. In fact, I suspect he would relish it.
195 posted on 07/24/2003 3:35:28 PM PDT by Captain Kennit
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To: Ohioan
Frum, from what I have seen, is an intellectual joke.

And Novak isn't? He traffics more in political gossip than in hard, intellectual, analysis and comment.

196 posted on 07/24/2003 3:35:35 PM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: billbears
Hmmmm, don't see Saudi Arabia on that list. Oh I keep forgetting they're our 'allies'.

I knew I was forgetting someone.... I guess I'd stick them in just before Cuba. Thanks!

197 posted on 07/24/2003 3:41:16 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
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To: Ohioan
But the answer to those with whom he disagrees is almost never to answer their arguments, rather to smear their motives. It is impossible to believe that the writer has a truly Conservative bone in his body.

Thanks. You've just provided a classic example of that yourself.

198 posted on 07/24/2003 3:41:30 PM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: Dolphy
Well, I'll tell you. My long-term goals are clearly stated on the front page and my short term goals are as stated on this thread and elsewhere. There is no way we can recover our constitutionally limited goverment or our long lost liberty if we continue allowing the Democrats the luxury of setting policy or controlling the legislative agenda or appointing or confirming judicial nominees. You'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to NOT see that liberal judicial activism is one of the, if not THE major problem, and block to advancing our conservative causes. What the liberals can't get accomplished via legislation, they simply get the courts to do for them. The liberal judiciary MUST be replaced. Period. End of story. Priority number one! And there's only one way to replace them. STOP allowing Democrats to hold power!

My goal for the current election cycle is to dump as many liberals (Democrats) from office as humanly possible and to elect as many Republicans as humanly possible to continue building on the Republican majority. And this is at ALL levels of government, not just federal. The liberals must be blocked and reversed. We're working out butts off toward this goal on FR and those who are going to actively work against us in this endeavor are probably not going to be very welcome here.


199 posted on 07/24/2003 3:59:32 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Conservative by nature... Republican by spirit... Patriot by heart... AND... ANTI-Liberal by GOD!)
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To: PhiKapMom; Chancellor Palpatine
I tried to use this to start a thread and it got nuked. Maybe as a reply it can get by. This is the Constitution Party Platform of 2000, heavily abriged and edited, with comments added by me. Google for the original document if you wish. Like anything purporting to be conservative, it has SOME good stuff in it. These are paleos, and beyond. Enjoy!

Preamble
We, the members of the Constitution Party, gratefully acknowledge the blessing of the Lord God as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of this Nation. We solemnly declare that the foundation of our political position and moving principle of our political activity is our full submission and unshakable faith in our Savior and Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Divine Providence as we work to restore and preserve this Nation as a government of the People, by the People, and for the People. Joos, mooslims, heathens, pagans & you Buddha heads can go take a flying leap. We’ll get back to you Mormons out there.
The U.S. Constitution established a Republic under God, rather than a democracy. Our Republic is a nation governed by a Constitution that is rooted in Biblical law, Yep. It’s right there in I Madison, Chapter 5. administered by representatives who are Constitutionally elected by the citizens.

Sanctity of Life
As to matters of rape and incest, it is unconscionable to take the life of an innocent child for the crimes of his father. Well, that’s a non-starter. Also, there is nothing in this section that addresses the rare occaision of medical necessity—a tubal pregnancy. Roe v Wade is illegitimate, contrary to the law of the nation’s Charter and Constitution. It must be resisted by all civil government officials, federal, state, and local, and by all branches of the government — legislative, executive, and judicial. Ahhh, I get it. A nation of laws, but feel empowered to disobey those that you find objectionable.
In addition, we condemn the misuse of anti-racketeering and other federal laws against pro-life demonstrators, and strongly urge the repeal of the RICO and FACE Acts as unconstitutional expansions of federal power into areas reserved to the states by the Tenth Amendment. So, in order to make sure that our ox is’nt gored, we will throw out the baby of shutting down Mafia type groups with the bathwater of RICO suits against our buddies. Finally, we also oppose all government "legalization" of euthanasia, infanticide and suicide. Yep. Kill yurself in our Amurika, yur in deep kimchee, bucko.

AIDS
Criminal penalties should apply to those whose willful acts of omission or commission place members of the public at risk of contracting AIDS or HIV. Already being done, guys.

Character and Moral Conduct
Public respect and esteem toward public officials has fallen to a shameful level. The Constitution Party finds that the cause of this national state of disgrace is the deterioration of personal character among government leaders, exacerbated by the lack of public outcry against immoral conduct by public office holders. A fine non sequitar there.

Congressional Reform
The Congress of the United States has become an overpaid, overstaffed, self-serving institution. It confiscates taxpayer funds to finance exorbitant and unconstitutionally determined salaries, pensions, and perks. Most members of Congress have become more accountable to the Washington establishment than to the people in their home districts. Both houses of Congress are all too often unresponsive and irresponsible, arrogantly placing themselves above the very laws they enact, and beyond the control of the citizens they have sworn to represent and serve. We seek to:
• Abolish Congressional pensions. So that the congress critters will be in the pockets of those that can guarantee them the best job after their term is up instead of being in the pockets of those that kick in the most campaign contributions.
• Abolish federal pay for members of Congress, and restore provisions for per diem allowances. Yep. That’ll cut down on bribery alright.
It is time for the American people to renew effective supervision of their public servants, to restore right standards and to take back the government. Congress must once again be accountable to the people and obedient to the Constitution, repealing all laws that delegate legislative powers to regulatory agencies, bureaucracies, private organizations, the Federal Reserve Board, international agencies, the President, and the judiciary. So which of these organizations pass bills that the President can veto or sign into law? Anyone?… Anyone at all? If we are to see a return to the states those powers, programs, and sources of revenue that the federal government has unconstitutionally taken away, then it is also vital that we repeal the Seventeenth Amendment and return to state legislatures the function of electing the U.S. Senate. In so doing, this would return the U.S. Senate to being a body of political hacks and cronies of the party that has power in the statehouses. I would love to see what the Massachussetts or California state legislature would bless us with. Completely unelectable idealogues with an agenda and an attitude is my guess. that represents the legislatures of the several states on the federal level

Cost of Big Government
The only legitimate purpose of civil government is to safeguard the God-given rights of its citizens; namely, life, liberty, and property. Only those duties, functions, and programs specifically assigned to the federal government by the Constitution should be funded. We call upon Congress and the President to stop all federal expenditures which are not specifically authorized by the U. S. Constitution, and to restore to the states those powers, programs, and sources of revenue that the federal government has usurped. So, now your own state can tax the beejesus out of you to pay for things that people seem to like. Great deal, huh?
We call for the abolition of the Civil Service system, which is perceived to confer on government employees a "property right" regarding their jobs. So all your government employees can be political hacks without a shred of technical expertise that get recycled every few years. Be sure you don’t need them to do anything unless you have lots of baksheesh handy…

Defense
We call for the maintenance of a strong, state-of-the-art military on land, sea, in the air, and in space. We urge the executive and legislative branches to continue to provide for the modernization of our armed forces, in keeping with advancing technologies and a constantly changing world situation. This one is not bad, however, somewhat problematic with other planks that pretty much remove funding sources for a state of the art military. The Panama Canal thing was a little bit weird, too.

Drug Abuse
The Constitution Party will uphold the right of states and localities to restrict access to drugs and to enforce such restrictions in appropriate cases with application of the death penalty. Smoke a J, ride the needle. Or, Just say NO! (or we’ll kill ‘ya, hophead) We support legislation to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the United States from foreign sources. Oh, like the ones that exist now? As a matter of self-defense, retaliatory policies including embargoes, sanctions, and tariffs, should be considered. War on Drugs? Hey, WE'LL SHOW 'YA WAR ON DRUGS, BY JESUS! aka, “Reverse Opium War(s)”.
At the same time, we will take care to prevent violations of the Constitutional and civil rights of American citizens. Searches without probable cause and seizures without due process must be prohibited, and the presumption of innocence must be preserved. Riiiiiiiiggghhhhtt ;-)

Education
All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith. Ooooooopps. Guess that whole 1st Amendment Establishment Clause thingy will have to go, huh? The law of our Creator assigns the authority and responsibility of educating children to their parents. Education should be free from all federal government subsidies, including vouchers, tax incentives, and loans, except with respect to veterans. As they say in Louisiana, ‘Litrusee ain’t everthin.’ So that no parents need defy the law by refusing to send their children to schools of which they disapprove, compulsory attendance laws should be repealed. See above.

Election Reform
The Voting Rights Act should be repealed. Yep. Who needs the pickaninnies votin’ anyhow? The Federal Election Campaign Act, including its 1974 amendments, and the Federal Election Commission should be abolished. That’s a swell idea. And when a corrupt liberal (forgive the redundancy) starts “losing” voter registration forms for Republicans, Libertarians, Independents, and the few, the proud, the good amurikan Constitwoshon Party good ole’ boys, you won’t even have anyone to b!tch to, skippy! Smmmaaaarrrrtt! I could just imagine the “literacy test” written by a Goron. Brush up on your Paul Ehrlich, people! In order to avoid election fraud, we urge an end to electronic or mechanical voting processes and a return to the manual counting process overseen by, and accountable to, voters resident in each precinct where the votes are cast. Riiiiiigghhhhht! All the elections where the manual ballots were counted, like NY City and Chicago in the late 1800’s were all on the level, I’m sure.

Electoral College
The "general ticket" system is still in use today. Inherently, it causes corruption by the inequitable transfer of power from congressional districts to the states and large cities at the expense of rural communities. Similarly, power can be shifted inequitably to minorities and special interest groups. In other words, a shell game so that the large cities, in say CA, get to send 40+ Dim electors to the Electoral College every 4 years. What the writers of this manifesto forget is that Congressional Districts are apportioned on the basis of population…
The Constitution Party, therefore, proposes legislation to eliminate the "general ticket" system and return to the procedure intended by the Framers. Might want to rethink that one, Skippy.

Environment
We call for a return to the states and to the people all lands which are held by the federal government without authorization by the Constitution. How many of you ever visit Yellowstone, anyhow? I’m sure that the admission prices charged by Disney, Six Flags, and Balley’s will be affordable…

Foreign Policy
The Constitution Party calls on the United States to withdraw from the United Nations and to require the U.N. to move out of the United States. Yep. And when the world votes to do something we would really hate, we won’t be around to veto it, or even raise a peep about why it would be bad thing. Good thinking there.
The United States must withdraw from all international monetary and financial institutions and agencies, e.g., the International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, WTO, NAFTA, GATT, etc. Yeah! Why should we be interested in having countries that we buy stuff from and sell stuff to having a stable currency or a viable economy?
The United States should recognize Taiwan (Free China) as a sovereign nation. We should also withdraw recognition of Communist China, which is a murderous and tyrannical regime enslaving the Chinese people. OK. And what about that little thingy of having no official way to talk to a government that is over 15% of the world’s population? And a government that would probably be pretty PO’d at us, too. Some more brilliance.

Gambling
Gambling promotes an increase in crime, destruction of family values, and a decline in the moral fiber of our country. We are opposed to government sponsorship, involvement in, or promotion of gambling, such as lotteries, or subsidization of native American casinos in the name of economic development. We call for the repeal of federal legislation that usurps state and local authority regarding authorization and regulation of tribal casinos in the states. Only one problem. Indian reservations are on federal land.

Health Care and Government
The federal government has no Constitutional provision to regulate or restrict the freedom of the people to have access to medical care, supplies or treatments. We advocate, therefore, the elimination of the federal Food and Drug Administration, OUTSTANDING!!! Can I interest you in bottle of “Dr. Bob’s Feelgood”? Only $5.00 a bottle. It MAY cure ‘ya, MAY NOT poison ‘ya, but a couple pulls off of it, and you won’t care! Babies Cry For It! And while I’m at it, I am going to start marketing “Bob’s Country Sausage”. Made with REAL INGREDIANTS! (of course, decent folks won’t want to discuss which real ingrediants I use, but hey, I’ll make enough money to where I don’t have to eat the crap. OOooops, gave away one of the ingrediants.)as it has been the federal agency primarily responsible for prohibiting beneficial products, treatments, and technologies here in the United States that are freely available in much of the rest of the civilized world.

Money and Banking
The federal government has departed from the principle of "coin" money as defined by the U.S. Constitution and the Mint Act of 1792 and has granted unconstitutional control of the nation’s monetary and banking system to the private Federal Reserve System. Sorry. The Fed still reports to Congress—Translation: Congress is still officially “regulating” money.
1. Restoring the nation’s official medium of exchange to be compliant with the U.S. Constitution and the Mint Act of 1792. And a free horse to haul your wages with?
2. Establishing a new American dollar: a. That is a coinable commodity money; Suitable for wire transfers?
b. That weighs one Troy ounce of .999 fine silver or its equivalent in gold; Guess not.
c. That is 100% backed and redeemable in specie; and My favorite species are large cats and bovines…
d. That its value is determined by the free market. And what determines what a $ is worth now, hmmmm?
3. Prohibiting all fractional reserve banking. Hope you were’nt counting on getting a mortgage or a car loan anytime soon.
4. Repealing the Federal Reserve Act and reforming the current Federal Reserve banks into clearing houses only. Find another windmill guys…

Social Security
We urge the repeal of those provisions of the Social Security system which penalize those born during the "notch years" between 1917 and 1926, and argue that such persons be placed on the same benefit schedules as all other beneficiaries. A good insight into the demographic make up of the platform writers.

State Sovereignty
The federal government has no authority to mandate policies relating to state education, natural resources, transportation, private business, housing, health care, ad infinitum. Yeah. Those damm Interstate highways have GOT TO GO! Take up your Jackhammer! For Freedom!

Tariffs and Trade
in Article I, Section 8: duties, imposts, and excises are legitimate revenue-raising measures on which the United States government may properly rely. As Abraham Lincoln pointed out, the legitimate costs of the federal government can be borne either by taxes on American citizens and businesses or by tariffs on foreign companies and products. The latter is preferable to the former. Riiiiggghhhhtt! Just what we need! Another tax on oil, and on the raw materials that the remaining factories in this countries need to import! That’s wonderful! Think of how competitive we’ll be with both our wage costs and raw materials costs being more than anyone else!

Taxes
Since 1913, our Constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property have been abridged and diminished by the assumption of direct taxing authority on each of us by the federal government. Now here is where I get confused. The Constitution provides that ability to be amended…So that which is constitutionally brought into being is unconstitutional? (I actully agree with the object of this plank, but arguments that the Income Tax is unconstitutional have been shown to be hoakum for a while now…)

Wage and Price Control
We deny that civil government has the authority to set wages and prices; so doing is inconsistent with principles of individual liberty and the free market. Yeah, them price controls are real bummer. Ohh, wait.

Welfare
We encourage individuals and families to fulfill their personal responsibility to help those in need through tithes, offerings, and other acts of charity. The nation’s churches and synagogues should manifest their faith by operating effective programs to assist those who are in need. "Go to church or starve, heathen bum!"; or, No Soup for you, Atheist!"

200 posted on 07/24/2003 4:02:08 PM PDT by L,TOWM (Liberals, The Other White Meat)
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