Where have all the Americans gone? (Greece) (Victor Davis Hanson alert)

Townhall ^ | 7/13/03 | Victor Davis Hanson

[Cacophonous]

Careful, or there are those on here that will accuse you of anti-Americanism and of blaming America first. But you said, much more tactfully than I, what I was trying to say.

[kabar]

Hanson provides anecdotal impressions that may or may not be accurate. American tourism has been down throughout the world after 9/11. Having lived in Athens for three years in the mid-nineties, I take exception to Hanson's characterization that Greeks are anti-American. The socialist, PASOK dominated government is anti-American, but on a personal level, Americans are welcomed and not harassed during their travels around Greece.

Much of the official anti-Americanism stems from the US support (with perhaps CIA involvement) of the Greek junta that took over the country in 1967 and ruled until 1974 when the colonels were overthrown. A revolt by the students on November 17th, 1973 by the students at Athens Polytechnic University was brutually put down by the military. It is no accident that the Greek terrorist group that has killed a number of Americans among others is named November 17th or that the students show up annually on that date to protest in front of the US Embassy.

[Joe Boucher]

By this reasoning we Americans should have no interests in Yugoslavia, Africa, or even most of S.E. Asia as well as others unless our direct safety or financial interests are at stake.

[Cacophonous]

By this reasoning we Americans should have no interests in Yugoslavia, Africa, or even most of S.E. Asia as well as others unless our direct safety or financial interests are at stake.

Correct. I don't understand why that viewpoint is controversial. Pull ALL the troops back home. From everywhere. Let the rest of the world learn to diaper itself.

[A. Pole]

After hearing too many conspiracy theories from wild intellectuals or long diatribes about America's unfair treatment of Milosevic, I think the country's establishment needs to get a life and move on from old hurts, real and imagined, since it is all beginning to sound so tired and shrill.

Milosevic is still before the "tribunal". KLA is doing fine.

[A_perfect_lady]

I know you've already withdrawn your comments, but let me pile on a bit, belatedly: they hate us even when we REFUSE to get involved. Think of Rwanda. I heard no end of griping at the university about our "callous indifference." No, I'm afraid I personally think that there is nothing, nothing we can do (or not do) to ease their hatred of us. Our intervention or lack thereof is just an excuse. As long as we are successful and happy, they'll hate us the way children from a previous marriage hate the new baby.

[Cacophonous]

Then from our standpoint, why would we risk money, resources, and most of all, the lives of American troops by getting involved? To hell with all of them if they are going to hate us.

[A. Pole]

Kosovo - A sudden refugee crisis was destabilizing Macedonia and threatening a regional war which would affect NATO allies Italy, Greece and Turkey. Serbia was also shown to be in alliance with Iraq, Libya and China.

I am not sure about Libya, but indeed secular governments of China and Iraq were siding with Serbs in their fight against Albanian Muslim extremists. NATO was on the other side.

[Let's Roll]

I didn't take it that way - I don't think VDH meant it was wrong for Americans to decide not to spend their money in Greece, but that it was wrong for Americans to think that Greece was that anti-American.

[Walkingfeather]

I am not sure anyone will attend... they have not built the stadiums and the venues that are to be used for the games.

[Elkiejg]

but on a personal level, Americans are welcomed and not harassed during their travels around Greece. Much of the official anti-Americanism stems from the US support (with perhaps CIA involvement) of the Greek junta that took over the country in 1967 and ruled until 1974 when the colonels were overthrown. A revolt by the students on November 17th, 1973 by the students at Athens Polytechnic University was brutually put down by the military. It is no accident that the Greek terrorist group that has killed a number of Americans among others is named November 17th or that the students show up annually on that date to protest in front of the US Embassy.

Excellent background info. We've been to Greece several times since 1992 - husband's work for the Greek transit - and found the Greeks extremely hospitable. We were primarily in Athens, but even when visiting the countryside and islands, they were most accommodating. I did however, witness one example of an "ugly American" attitude in a shop where the "american" was complaining about something and the owner told them they were a guests in his country and should behave appropriately!! Couldn't fault his evaluation. After the ugly american left, I felt compelled to apologize for my countryman and try to convince him we're not all like that -- he was most gracious and we have a wonderful discussion which ended with him closing his shop and he and his wife treated me to some refreshment and a walk through the Plaka to show me some areas that aren't known to many tourists. It's amazing the change in attitude when you express genuine interest in their country and culture. I like the Greeks and their country.

[gitmogrunt]

Good article.But I need an explanation.....

If no Americans want to go to Greece, how come all the flights leaving the U.S. are booked up to Novemeber?(I did a search on travelocity).

Since they booed at the request for a moment of silence for the 911 victims, the Greeks can eat scatalogical matter.

[A_perfect_lady]

Because even if we withdrew completely, I believe they would continue to target us for terrorism. They hate our free market. They hate that their populace loves our culture. They hate the example we set. They hate our wealth. And most of them need someone to hate so they don't have to face their own failures. If we withdrew they would still rant about the past, demand apologies in cash form.... indeed, I wonder if they wouldn't hate us even more. There are a lot of places only barely under control and if we leave, all hell will break loose. And who will they blame? Themselves? Ha.

Now, you may say, "Fine, let 'em hate us, what can they do?" But we've seen that they can do plenty. Our borders are very porous. We'd have to clamp down at the Iron Curtain level. I can sympathize with your point of view and I think that if we did indeed clamp down HARD on immigration, it might help. But they'd still do their best to hurt our business interests overseas.

No, I think it's 70 years too late for military isolationism, tempting though it is. Communism, Socialism, and Islam are all spreading like cancers, and a huge capitalist country is a major impediment to all their agendas. They have to destroy us in order to complete what they all see as their Manifest Destiny. They have already indicated their willingness to band together in order to try and bring us down. (If they succeeded, of course, they'd turn on each other in a manner that could really cause the War To End All Wars, but that's another story.)

[rface]

I've never been to Greece, but my impression is that the Grecians are more America-hating than the Canadians, the Germans or the French.

[jpsb]

Seems to me the Anti-Americans are the ones that wish to see us spend our blood and treasure in a doomed attempt at solving the unsolvable problems of the world.

[jpsb]

Before 1950 the USA was a loved and respected country. We minded our own business and tended to our own affiars. (Excluding Central/South America were we have always meddled). I can somewhat for given our leaders for being interventionist during the cold war. You do what you got to do. But there is no excuse now and we would be wise to return to our pre Cold War policy of intervention ONLY when American lives or property are at risk.

[A_perfect_lady]

Before 1950 the USA was a loved and respected country.

Didn't do the folks at Pearl Harbor much good, did it?

[A_perfect_lady]

I disagree, and the friendship we've seen recently from Kuwaitis, South Koreans, Iranians, Iraqis, Afghanis,

Today's Kuwaitis are tomorrow's French. Gratitude is short. Resentment is long. And the Afghanis repaid our help in the 1980s by hosting Al Qaeda, so I'm not sure I can take much heart from your observations.

...and so on, even from some Canadians and French, backs me up.

I'll have to take your word for that because I haven't seen squat from the French and the flannel French. Oh, there may be a handful of civilians who like us well enough, but that doesn't do us any good when the French government sells weapons to the Iraqis.