Jews and War

The National Review ^ | March 13, 2003 10:45 a.m. | Jeff Goldberg

[Mr. Mojo]

I know that Reform Jews are all far left Democrats

Not true. Many - although certainly not the majority - of reform Jews are liberal on some social issues (like abortion, the WOD, etc), but are fiscal conservatives who are bullish on national defense. Same goes for completely "secular" Jews.

[Bella_Bru]

Not true, but broad generalizations rarely are. I am a member of the Republican Jewish Coalition. Most of the members are Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionist.

[Lurking Libertarian]

I know that Reform Jews are all far left Democrats, and Orthodox Jews are almost all Republican

Far from true. The official bodies of Reform Judaism do take liberal positions on most issues, but that means as much to the people in the pews as the equally liberal stands taken by many mainstrean Protestant churches mean to the people in their pews. Similarly, although Orthodox Jews are conservative on social issues (pornography, abortion, homosexuality), many of them vote Democratic for economic reasons (or because their parents did).

[Lurking Libertarian]

You might notice from that small list that most of the Jews against war with Iraq are — surprise! — liberals. Funny thing, that. Liberals tend to be against the war and Jewish liberals tend to be against the war too. Weird. Weirder still: Jewish conservatives tend to be in favor of the war. Now that is bizarre. And, as I look around, it dawns on me that gay conservatives tend to be in favor of forcibly disarming Saddam if necessary, while gay liberals generally insist that inspection will do the trick. And, you know, tall conservatives also favor war but tall liberals tend to be against it. My God, it's true everywhere I look: left-handed conservatives, pro-war. Left-handed liberals, antiwar. Bald conservatives: pro, bald liberals, anti. It's almost like there's a pattern here.

The key point in all of this. People who talk about "the Jews" must think there's a monthly meeting at which we all get our talking points. Nobody ever invited me.

[Clemenza]

Plenty of Jews oppose the war down here where I am typing in South Florida. Nevertheless, most are "supporting the troops," regardless of their stand on the handling of Iraq.

[JerseyHighlander]

As for the quote, Jackie Mason? Anwar Sadat? Joe Piscopo?

[Alberta's Child]

It's been posted already -- Moshe Dayan.

[SJackson]

As I noted up in response 27,

Given the fact that Israel didn't start building settlements in any quanity till about 1977, a decade after the 67 war, and resigned as foreign minister in 79 in anger over Begin's support for settlements (Dayan opposed them), that is a very unusual quote. The US brass he told that to in the early 70's must have thought he was completely nuts.

it’s a very interesting quote, particularly in view of Dayan’s opposition to settlements, leading to his resignation as foreign minister in 1979, 18 months or so before his death.

Who knows, maybe he changed his mind, somewhere. Sharon did, he opposed the settlements at that time too.

Dayan spent some time in Vietnam in 1966, well reported on, and is frequently quoted both as to his statement that, and these aren’t exact, the worst war to fight is the one you can’t win, that it’s more important to talk to your enemies than your friends, and that the US expends more artillery in one action than he could conceive of in an entire campaign. All easily verified with a simple search.

Nothing about settlements, which isn’t all that suprising, since the West Bank was occupied by Jordan and Gaza by Egypt.

I’ve read he was invited after his victory in the 67 war, but I’m not sure he went. Could you provide us any information as to this trip to Vietnam in the early 70’s and the context or source of the quote?

[Bella_Bru]

The key point in all of this. People who talk about "the Jews" must think there's a monthly meeting at which we all get our talking points. Nobody ever invited me.

I didn't get an invite either. Is this monthly meeting someone connected to the IZC? Because, I never get any newsletters. :-P

[yonif]

I don't know a single Jew who is in favor of the war.

I am Jewish and for the war.

[Luis Gonzalez]

You don't know a lot of Jews then.

I do, and they are.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"People who talk about "the Jews" must think there's a monthly meeting at which we all get our talking points. Nobody ever invited me."

Sorry guys, I wish you would have said something sooner.

The meeting is held the first Thursday of the month at the location below, between 4 and 6 PM, also known as Early Bird...it includes a beverage.

[SJackson]

source please.

See 27 & 48. You may be waiting awhile.

[Lurking Libertarian]

The meeting is held the first Thursday of the month at the location below, between 4 and 6 PM, also known as Early Bird...it includes a beverage.

Is there coffee and cake?

[presidio9]

You don't know a lot of Jews then.

I do, and they are.

I know TONS of Jews. Say what you want about them., but as a group they tend to be overwhelmingly politically liberal. In the 2000 presidential election, 15% of the Jewish vote went to George Bush. That is not to say that there are politically conservative Jews. Just that I don't know very many.

[presidio9]

You need to get out more. There are probably at least a thousand just here on FR, yours truly included. ....And the author named quite a few in his article, if you actually read it.

How many Jews do you suppose there are on the Democtatic Underground then? Look, facts are facts. Colin Powell and Condolezza Rice don't prove that black people are for the war. They are the exception.

[presidio9]

So there, you have me and Veronica. But Veronica's my cousin. Conservatism runs deep in our family!

Super. And I am happy to have you along for the ride. But you just proved my point. Would it change the argument if I had said "a small fraction of American Jews is in favor of war in Iraq?"

[Luis Gonzalez]

Who they voted for in 2000 has nothing to do with whether they support the war effort or not.

They voted for this man, and this man supports the war.

[ex-snook]

I think the posters have made the point that there are many prominent Jews and Gentiles in favor of this war (and against). For the group of Jews and Gentiles called Neo-cons the moment of truth test will be Bush's American interest decision on a Palestine State.

Now that Bush decided on war, all Americans should back him. Before he decided on war, all were free to put forth arguments. Now since Bush decided on a Palestine State, all Americans should back him. Not the war, but this, will be the moment of truth to see if neo-cons are 'for or against Bush'. Will they back the President?