Jews and War

The National Review ^ | March 13, 2003 10:45 a.m. | Jeff Goldberg

[Mr. Mojo]

In the 2000 presidential election, 15% of the Jewish vote went to George Bush.

In that same election, close to 50% of all Jews under 30 voted GOP. ...So the tide is turning.

Jews in the HOR voted overwhelmingly to authorize President Bush to use military force against Iraq last Oct, and Jewish Senators were split on the matter.

[Hildy]

But you didn't read my other post which stated that most Jews I know are for the war because of Israel.

[presidio9]

Who they voted for in 2000 has nothing to do with whether they support the war effort or not. They voted for this man, and this man supports the war.

Actually the percentage of Jews voting for Gore-Leiberman was lower than in previous elections. This does not change the fact that the overwhelming majority of American Jews are dyed-in-the-wool liberals.

[presidio9]

But you didn't read my other post which stated that most Jews I know are for the war because of Israel.

If you are referring to Jews in Isreal, I'll buy it. In NYC, most affluent Jews would not vote for George Bush if he were running against Stalin. This is not opinion, it is fact. Exceptions to the rule are just that. Exceptions.

[presidio9]

In that same election, close to 50% of all Jews under 30 voted GOP. ...So the tide is turning.

Great! I look forward to the day when conservatives dominate the Jewish American populaton. Until then, I get along very well with Jews. I just can't talk politics with them. And when I find myself defending Isreal to a Jew I feel like my head is going to explode.

[cactusSharp]

cannot find one jew on the streets here in Phoenix that a) likes Bush and b)one who either served his country or approves of this war......100% of those I spoke to are pizzed we dissed the UN.......said it umpteen times...there are two kinds of jews......real and honest ones and the media jews killing America with every hour of
tv time...

[Mr. Mojo]

I get along very well with Jews. I just can't talk politics with them.

There you go again with your generalizations. Did I not just inform you that 50% of American Jews under 30 voted for Bush? You can talk politics with them. And I see you've been successfully talking politics with many politically conservative Jews on this website, some of whom are even over 30. I know it must be difficult to dispel a longstanding mistaken notion from your head, but in the name of reason and accuracy, at least give it a try.

[presidio9]

Look, I'm not try to hurt your feelings here. I acknowledge the fact that there are some conservative jews. Unfortunately, they are an overwhelming minority. Facts are facts. In NYC, there are almost no Jews who supported the war before yesterday. In fairness, now that we are winning, some of them seem to be changing their tune. But, as a group (there I go making generalizations again) Jews are one of the most liberal demographics you are likely to find.

[Luis Gonzalez]

You are drawing the conclusion that because Jews vote Liberal, they do not support the war.

That's a classic case of believing that people of similar ethnicity all share a group-think mentality...you are simply wrong. Lieberman is a Liberal, and is also all for the war.

That's the point I mader to refute your generalization.

[wardaddy]

Sort of my thoughts exactly. I WISH there was a Jewish Cabal in favor of this war. The opposite appears more like reality.

Kristol and Krauthammer and NRO do not make a "cabal"...lol

Irony here folks.....remember not to long ago when WF Buckley was alleged to be an "anti-Semite"? Has anyone looked at the National Review masthead of writer's lately? I realize he no longer runs it day to day but I find those old allegations comical?...in a good way...the more conservative or semi-conservative Jewish intellectuals ...all the better.

[presidio9]

You are drawing the conclusion that because Jews vote Liberal, they do not support the war.

That's a classic case of believing that people of similar ethnicity all share a group-think mentality...you are simply wrong. Lieberman is a Liberal, and is also all for the war.

That's the point I mader to refute your generalization

You are mistaking an educated observation with stereotyping. There is a small percentage of Conservative Jews who supported the war all along. Most (and by "most" I mean "just about all") Jews in this country are very liberal. They did not support the war, because they would not support George Bush if he had a plan for destroying an asteroid that was hurtling towards the Earth.

Again, I am not trying to hurt your feelings, but don't you see the flaw in your logic? You can't present an exception or two to the rule and think that refutes it. As I pointed out earlier. Colin Powell and Condolezza rice were i favor of the war all along. So all black were, right? Wrong.

Additionally, your obession with Isreal is equally confused. If Jews in general cared about Isreal, they would vote republican more often. Instead, in NY, they overwhelmingly voted for Hillary Clinton, after she hugged and kissed Arafat's wife.

You, yourself may or may not be Jewish. I suspect you are not. If not, then your attempt pollitical correctness is misguided. Conservative Jews themselves are generally furious with their more populous liberal countrymen.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"There is a small percentage of Conservative Jews who supported the war all along."

Can you post anything to substantiate your opinions?

Saddam Hussein launched missiles at Israel during Desert Storm, American Jews have been pissed off about that for over a decade.

You have no "educated observation", you have an opinion based on your impression of an entire ethnicity of people, based on your observation of a small number of anti-war Jews. You have also tried to make the connection that since Jews are mostly Liberals, they are against the war.

I refuted your small observation with my larger and broader one, one half of my family are American Jews, and I live in what could possibly be one of the highest concentration of Jews in the nation. And to top that, I pointed out that the most renown Jew in government today, is not only pro-war, but pro-Israel, and a Liberal.

I have attended functions at local temples where the featured speaker was Ari Fleischer, and have personally heard the support for the war coming from the crowd.

I have no obsession with Israel, and your ignorance is blinding.

American Jews don't care about Israel because they vote Democratic?

You are laughingly mistaken.

American Jews are the greatest supporters of the State of Israel in the world.

[presidio9]

I'm not going to bother to cut and past your post, so if you can't stay with me, you'll have to scroll back...

I'm not sure where the "highest concentration of Jews in the nation" is, but I grew up in Brooklyn, so I am not basing my observation on a handful of acquaintenences. I submit to you, that if you live in a very Jewish community, you are most likely only coming into contact with the most liberal Jews. Note: I am not looking to criticize Jews in general. I am a big fan of Isrealis. American Jews, unfortunately, leave a lot to be desired politically. I see that you have made a big committment in you life to the Jewish culture. I cmmend you on that. But drawing parallels between the feelings of Jews in general, and those of Joe Lieberman ran is faulty logic. I can't tell you how many conservative Irish Catholics I know who voted for Jack Kennedy. Doesn't prove that they agreed with his views. The fact that NY Jews voted for Hillary Clinton shows that they don't give a shit about Isreal.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"...that if you live in a very Jewish community, you are most likely only coming into contact with the most liberal Jews..."

I live a stone's throw away from Boca Raton.

Now, are you going to substantiate anything?

"But drawing parallels between the feelings of Jews in general, and those of Joe Lieberman ran is faulty logic."

Faulty logic?

You claim that most Jews oppose the war, you say that they do so because they are Liberals, and vote Liberal. So then, your argument is that Jews follow a ceratin paterrn in thinking because they are Jewish.

I show you the first ever Jewish candidate for the presidency, a Liberal, that sustains your argument. Then I point out that this Jew, who received the overwhelming majority of the Jewish vote in his run with Gore, is pro-war.

And now you're spinning out of control in an attempt at proving your own argument wrong.

[presidio9]

Faulty logic is difficult to understand for those who use it. Geraldine Ferraro took several positions that women in general did not agree with. And, as I've already pointed out, Gore-Lieberman actually received a lower percentage of the Jewish vote than either Cliton-Gore campaign. It is impossible for me to "spin out of control." I'm right here. I don't want to be right, it is just a fact that most Jews in this country are hopelessly liberal. So are most blacks. Doesn't mean there aren't the exceptions you take the time to point out. It's just the way things are.

[WaveThatFlag]

Um, I work on Wall Street with a huge number of very successful, educated Jewish people. A couple of them were for war initially. Way more than most of them were against it. It had nothing to do with Isreal. They hate George Bush, and they saw their opinion as politically hurtful to a man they don't believe was rightfully elected president.

[cactusSharp]

TWO POINTS GOOD FREEPER.....they don't hate Bush....they hate that
they lost their turn to Bush..They had a wedge to socialism on the Bill/ Hill ticket and they loved the taste
...it was addicting.....tobacco tax has proven to be
very very addicting and may need a gubment safty label
warning you of gubment money grabs. That taste on a world buffet stage was eyewatering to the point of lieing about the stock markets, projects budget surplusses and euphoria
in blissful buckets...Roger Clinton had to rehad from the glut. Among others.

As to unduely elected...that is a media branded assumption proveable in no more that Judge Sauls court in Florida's capitol Tallahassee. Of the DNC and David Boise's seven points of bitch and damn it's.....the DNC and Boise did not prove a single one....dem chads sitting in that buildings basement were never legally proven to se perused once.....That decision and all others were never undone, un lawed or reversed at any level of law....
...so there is is good freeper...two points