Morality: Who Needs God?

AISH ^ | N/A | by Rabbi Nechemia Coopersmith

[Nix 2]

Got nuthin' to say. It's all been said.

[GirlNextDoor]

Bump for later read...hopefully.

[demosthenes the elder]

God doesn't change?
Exodus: "thou shalt not murder"
Joshua: "Go, and kill every last one of them, including women and children right down to the newborn" (or words to that effect.

That isn't a fundamental shift in stated policy?
Hoo!

[ShadowAce]

War is not murder

[AnalogReigns]

Murder (personally killing someone) and warfare (when nations fight with nations) are two different things....recognized from antiquity. Deeply engrained middle eastern customs of revenge(meaning it would be the life duty of a surviving child to wreak havoc on an enemy nation)--combined with the incredibly degenerate state of the Canaanites in those days made their annhilation required by God. God as the giver of life....and death, has the absolute right to determine when and where people die--we, on our, own don't.

There is no inconsistancy there--any more than the killing of innocent life (abortion) is murder, while the killing of the guilty (capitol punishment)-- duly convicted in a court of law, is not murder, but justice.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

More specifically, murder is a killing committed outside the law (or outside what the law should be).

[Celtjew Libertarian]

Actually, I can think of an absolute moral standard that could exist without God: Continuation of the species. However, that could open up a whole other can of worms (culling out of the weak, for example).

[hope]

Sometimes war is essential to cleanse the land of evil..G-d has used His people to do so and has also used the enemy of His people to bring them to repentance.

G-d has instilled in each of us the knowledge of His existence and of right and wrong. What we do with that knowledge is up to us. It's a matter of choice..And it does not mean we are able to make up our own code of morality.

[freeeee]

Sometimes war is essential to cleanse the land of evil..G-d has used His people to do so

People who think God talks to them and tells them to go kill other people belong in the same place as people who think they're Napoleon.

[Nix 2]

G-d has all the power over life and death, and there is a difference between killing and murder which is the whole difference between absolute and moral relativism. You would be questioning the Lord, not the man who followed His orders.
My perception of this article was more along the line of abortion, pedophilia, rape, wanton murder, war for the sake of war without reason or cause.
Just because you read a passage and pull it totally out of context without having studied the history or knowing the circumstances is pretty lame.
As a matter of fact, Jericho was already a destroyed city when Joshua arrived there. No one lived there. It had already been the victim of a devastating earthquake and fire. It is a *hero* story to give Joshua status. The truth is that the Israelites never attacked anyone who didn't attack them first because they asked to pass through lands and were feared because of their strangeness to the territory.
How on earth did you manage to turn a thread about morality into a Jew bashing thread before it even got started? It ain't about Jews. It's about leftist moral relativism. Get it?

[hope]

Oh please...dumb assumption...Read some history, if you can read.

[Nix 2]

Actually, without G-d, there would be no procreation or continuation of the species, or the species at all, for that matter. Ain't you heard the dual-paternity doctrine? There can be no conception without the presence of the Spirit of G-d. It's called the Abba Tradition.

[steve-b]

Perhaps there really is a God with an absolute standard of morality. If so, He hasn't deigned to explain them to us in person. We are left with the various moral assertions that humans offer in God's name. These turn out to be every bit as variable, vague, and inconsistent as the moral assertions offered in the name of pragmatism, emotional resonance, political ideology, etc.

Thus, resort to divine moral sanction turns out to be a useless non-resolution of the underlying problem.

[steve-b]

Murder (personally killing someone) and warfare (when nations fight with nations) are two different things....recognized from antiquity.

The distinction requires that the warfare meet the standards of Just War doctrine. Otherwise, you are forced to accept ludicrous positions, such as the notion the 9/11 Massacre was not a murderous act (Osama & Co. certainly consider themselves to be at war with Western Civilization in general and the US in particular).

Obviously, conquering and killing a people simply to take their land does not meet that standard.

[freeeee]

dumb assumption

Why?

Read some history, if you can read.

I've read some history. And pretty much every time "God" tells people to kill others, the results are bloody and disastrous. Inquisitions, crusades, witch trials, and jihads. Yeah, that's a great track record. Years later with the benefit of hindsight we shake our heads at their mindless barbarism.

It's the age old lie, told again and again. Some opportunistic charlatan fools the masses into thinking God whispers into his ear. And quite by coincidence of course, God just happens to want leaders to do things that benefit their own power and prestige.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me a hundred times and I need to have my head examined.

[steve-b]

The truth is that the Israelites never attacked anyone who didn't attack them first because they asked to pass through lands and were feared because of their strangeness to the territory.

If some armed band "asked" to pass through my territory, I'd tell them to get lost. If they tried to pass through anyway, I'd do my best to kill them until the survivors took the hint.

[freeeee]

without G-d, there would be no procreation

Atheists can have kids.

[safisoft]

God doesn't change? Exodus: "thou shalt not murder" Joshua: "Go, and kill every last one of them, including women and children right down to the newborn" (or words to that effect. That isn't a fundamental shift in stated policy?

Joshua was acting explicitly at G-d's command.

Exodus 20:13 says, "Thou shalt not kill [ratsach]". The word "kill" does not occur in the book of Joshua, but the word harag does.

ratsach is ALWAYS used to describe what we in English call "murder".

harag on the other hand is used in the Book of Joshua as an act of G-d's judgment. It is most often translated "slay" or "destroy".

G-d does not change. He is always the same...

[Nix 2]

So you are saying that the human brain hasn't been hardwired to KNOW the difference between good and evil. I believe we came with instructions, and those who learned the art of manipulation long ago and far away tried very hard to change that. It has been overwhelmingly successful, but it hasn't worked everywhere on everyone because there are those who DO hear G-d, whether they know it or not, and the final choice is always yours. You can follow the easy, lazy path, or you can do the right thing in the face of all the immorality that surrounds you. It isn't always easy, but it is always best...even at the risk of your own life. Ask some of our military.

[ShadowAce]

The truth is that the Israelites never attacked anyone who didn't attack them first because they asked to pass through lands and were feared because of their strangeness to the territory.

As a Christain, I would have to say that statement is not correct. Read the OT again.