Morality: Who Needs God?

AISH ^ | N/A | by Rabbi Nechemia Coopersmith

[ThinkDifferent]

Everything is permitted under moral relativism.

Everything is permitted under any religion as long as you convince yourself you're acting in the name of God. Since God doesn't hold public lessons on morality, we're left to human interpretations of his will. Some humans have the notion that God approves of murdering infidels and beating women who expose their faces, so we need a better way to evaluate moral claims than "because God says so".

[Van Jenerette]

...for class.

[OWK]

It is not a truth.

Please elaborate.

Describe for me a means by which one man might violate the rights of another, that does not involve initiated force, or fraud.

I'm on the edge of my seat.

[OWK]

Well said.

[f.Christian]

mgh ...


We can go back and forth like this all day, but the simple truth is either you don't want to know the truth because the existence of a morally perfect God would put
constraints on you that you won't accept, you like to play games which make you feel intellectually superior to others, or you are effectively a nihilist. Whatever the case, I won't waste any effort on you or your ilk; there are just too many honest seekers out there to do that.



594 posted on 02/26/2003 8:07 AM PST by MoGalahad



fC ...

nazis (( atheists // evolutionists // libertarians ))---

Main Entry: nar·cis·sism
Pronunciation: 'när-s&-"si-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: German Narzissismus, from Narziss Narcissus, from Latin Narcissus
Date: 1822
1 : EGOISM, EGOCENTRISM
2 : love of or sexual desire for one's own body
- nar·cis·sist /'när-s&-sist/ noun or adjective
- nar·cis·sis·tic /"när-s&-'sis-tik/ adjective

[galt-jw]

....precisely because there is no way to rationally derive them.

you just nullified your own argument. too bad you know so little about rand, or rands razor. perhaps a ouija board or channeling some ghost will help you. david hume? jhahhahhahahahaha

[freeeee]

nazis (( atheists // evolutionists // libertarians ))---

Libertarians are Nazis?? Riiight. All the Nazis in my history books had no problem initiating force. Heck, it was they did best.

Keep trying, f.Christian.

[HumanaeVitae]

Really? When has the Catholic Church endorsed abortion? That's an infallible, irrevocable doctrine of the Church.

Sweeping claims like that aren't really defensible, TD...

[OWK]

Nice attempt at changing the subject.

You didn't address what he said at all.

[galt-jw]

That's an infallible, irrevocable doctrine of the Church.

kinda like child rape, right?

pedophilia is wrong, unless you happen to be employed as clergy. I know, the only thing I have to back that up with it the vatican.

[galt-jw]

pretty much demolished his argument with rand's razor.

[f.Christian]

Through anarchy (( vacuum )) they invite --- INITIATE the force // power !

[ThinkDifferent]

When has the Catholic Church endorsed abortion? That's an infallible, irrevocable doctrine of the Church.

What does that have to do with anything I said? At least one of us is very confused.

[conservonator]

kinda like child rape, right? pedophilia is wrong, unless you happen to be employed as clergy. I know, the only thing I have to back that up with it the vatican.

Point me to where the actions listed above are specifically endorsed or explicitly encouraged in the deposit of Catholic Faith.

You do your self and your position no favors with ignorant posts like the one referenced above in italics.

[MEGoody]

"I am a moral absolutist of the first order."

So what objective source do morals come from in your view?

[John O]

All initiated force, threat of initiated force, or fraud, are immoral, whether perpetrated by an individual or by a collection of individuals sometimes known as government.

(for the sake of argument) Why?

If I don't see force as immoral and there is no God to tell me it's immoral, what makes it immoral?

[OWK]

So what objective source do morals come from in your view?

My moral code is derived via the application of reason, to the observation of reality.

[OWK]

If I don't see force as immoral and there is no God to tell me it's immoral, what makes it immoral?

Read my earlier post.

[MEGoody]

"My moral code is derived via the application of reason, to the observation of reality."

Ah, so in other words, you use 'reason' as you define it and 'reality' as you perceive it. That is not an objective source for morals.

[HumanaeVitae]

Really?

John, you have no idea what you're talking about. Professional philosophers know about the 'ought-is' problem. That's why they dismiss Rand as a crank. Anyone with a basic knowledge of philosophy would know that what Rand claims to have done has never been done, and can't be done.

There is a 19-page refutation of Rand at the Ludwig Von Mises Institute in PDF called "Ayn Rand and the Ought-Is Problem" by Patrick O'Neil to be found here (fourth article from the top, below the alphabetical listings; you have to page down to see it) that demolishes Rand's assertion that she has bridged this gap.

Randianism is nothing more than pretentious moral relativism in a propeller-beanie.