Posted on 02/25/2003 4:45:26 AM PST by conservativecorner
"In which Muslim country can a Christian safely stand on a street corner and preach that Mohammod was a false prophet, and that the only salvation comes through Jesus Christ?"
You mean, in which country can an individual stand in a street corner, and insult the prevailing religion without fear of repercussions by the true believers?
Why do you feel compelled to introduce the message of the love of Christ in a way that would first turn your target audience off?
Let's try your approach in a different setting.
Let's say that we are going to try converting a whole bunch of Hindus to Christianity. The way we're going to do this is by standing on a street corner in New Delhi, and shouting out to the gathered masses that they are a bunch of cow-worshipping, Khali-buggering heathens, and that they better come to Jesus or else.
You think we'll see a lot of conversions?
According to Baptist Press (BP), Graham made the comments in October, during an interview following the dedication of a chapel in Wilkesboro. NBC News contacted Graham for confirmation and broadcast the remarks on Nov. 16, the first day of Ramadan, a month-long period that Muslims consider the holiest season of the year. Graham noted that people of the Islamic faith carried out the Sept. 11 attacks. "I don't believe this is a wonderful, peaceful religion," Graham said.
A firestorm of protest ensued, of course - not only from the Muslim community, but even from the White House. A spokesman for the president distanced President Bush from Graham's remarks, saying that the president "views Islam as a religion that preaches peace."
Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, also stated recently that neither Muslims nor Jews worship the same God that Christians worship.
In an Oct. 17 chapel message covered by BP and the Kentucky Western Recorder, Mohler said Jews have rejected Christ and Muslims have replaced the God of the Bible with Allah. Mohler noted that his observation "is so politically incorrect," but said the church must speak a clear message that the Christian God is the only God. "We must be clear that to reject Jesus Christ is to reject the Father," he said.
So what are we to say? Do Muslims or even Jews worship the same god that Christians worship, or not?
The answer may have as much to do with semantics as with theology, but semantics are important.
In essence, the religion of Islam began in 610 A.D. when a man named Mohammed became convinced that the polytheism practiced by the Arabian tribes was wrong, and that only one god should be worshiped. Mohammed believed the angel Gabriel revealed this to him, and preached the message widely, teaching his followers the "revelations" from Gabriel that were collected and preserved as the Qur'an.
"Allah" is a poetic form of the Arabic al illah, meaning "the god." Mohammed took an incipient belief in a supreme god and promoted Allah as the only god.
Mohammed and his followers identified Allah as the god of the Old Testament, consider Abraham to be their spiritual ancestor, and revere the biblical prophets.
Muslims also consider Jesus to be a miracle-working prophet who was born of a virgin. They consider it heresy, however, to claim that Jesus is the Son of God, and reject all notions of the Trinity.
Islamic arguments against Christianity typically assert that Christians worship three gods and thus show infidelity to the one god.
The core of Islamic faith is expressed in the shahadah, sometimes translated as "There is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet." Some English-speaking Muslims translate "There is no god but God."
Jews and Christians have more commonality in belief, and clearly refer to the same deity when we say "God." Christians believe, however, that God's self-revelation does not stop with the Old Testament but is fulfilled in the New Testament.
Whether one prefers to say that Muslims, Jews and Christians believe in different gods, as opposed to differing views of the same god, is largely a matter of semantics. From a Christian perspective, anyone who does not accept the full revelation of God through the saving work of Christ and the sustaining presence of the Holy Spirit has only a partial understanding of God.
Thus, Christians might argue that Muslims or Jews worship "a different god" because we believe their concept of God is incomplete. It is perhaps more appropriate, however, to think of Muslims and Jews as worshiping the same god, though not in His fullness.
Why does it matter? Our terminology can impact the effectiveness of our witness to any who do not accept Christ. It is essential that we keep channels of communication open by showing respect for people of other faiths, even if we believe their view of God is inadequate. Explaining Christ as the saving fulfillment and ultimate revelation of the same god is a natural and effective means of sharing our faith with Muslims and Jews. Insisting that they worship a different god altogether is bound to be counter-productive.
It is possible to be tactful in our speech without compromising our witness.
Speak for yourself. I and mine have never murdered any babies. What kind of people are you?
Hank
In the United States, anybody may stand on a street corner and say whatever they want about Jesus, with a high degree of safety. The prevailing culture is such that he will have a low fear of being assaulted by private citizens, and a high expectation that the police will protect him from being assaulted as a result of his exercising his rights under the First Amendment. If the police decline to protect him, he can bring in the feds, and can sue for enough to make himself wealthy
Let's contrast this with the likely outcome in most Islamic countries, shall we? In Pakistan , blasphemy laws call for the death penalty against anyone found guilty of insulting Islam. Egypt is a little more liberal -- you may just get three years in prison for insulting Islam. Let's not forget the Iranian fatwa against Mr Rushdie for his book.
Do I really need to contine?
We are a nation where the majority is Christian, where babies are aborted IN DEFIANCE of the Christian precepts
Contrast this where bloody horror is conducted because it is MANDATED by Islam.
None will say it because it is not true. The author suffers from the very thing he is complaining about, the need for a clear enemy. To declare war on Islam would be much simpler and make separating the good from the bad a moot point. But Islam is not our enemy even though most of our enemies (at least the threatening ones) are Islamic. RACIST ALERT. If a redneck white boy from the South thinks the author a racist, he most likely is.Technically he's not a racist, he's a religious bigot. Otherwise the point is correct. The heirs of R. J. Rushdoony, Fred Phelps, Eric Rudolph, Matthew Hale...they all claim to act in the name of Christianity. This does not mean that those who would oppose and fight them are against Christianity, or that their declared enemies are those of Christianity as a whole.
In addition, declaring Islam to be our enemy means declaring war on about a billion people who are not our enemies, including some of our allies in our actions against Iraq, In other words it would not only be wrong, it would be profoundly stupid.
-Eric
Fatwa: Coming to a Country Near You--Islamic death bounties ain't hard to find
Source: FrontPageMagazine.com; Published: December 6, 2002; Author: David HarsanyiWhy we are losing the war
Source: Guardian Unlimited; Published : December 1, 2002Islam - Green Wall Of Silence - III
Source: PakToday : Published: November 25, 2002; Author: Tashbh SayyedBlack Muslims Create 'Explosive Mix' in Terror War, Says Author
Source: CNSBNEWS.com; Published: November 14, 2002; Author: Marc MoranoOf course, the great majority of Muslims are peaceful -- so what?
Source: Jewish World Review; Published: November 5, 2002; Author: DENNIS PRAGERRamadan: A Month of Peace?
Source: Toogood Reports; Published: November 4, 2002; Author:| Alan CarubaThe Seamless Garment Of Hate: The Beltway Sniper Shootings And Islam/Nation of Islam
Source: Toogood Reports; Published:| November 1, 2002; Author: Nicholas StixBarbara Stanley: American Jihadist Terrorism - Conversion And Recruitment
Source: Toogood Reports; Published: October 28, 2002; Author: Barbara StanleyJihadis in the Hood: Race, Urban Islam and the War on Terror
Source: Middle East Report; Published: Fall 2002; Author: Hisham AidiThe Radical Islamic Mind (lengthy exposé from Christian perspective)
Source:Spiritual Counterfeits Project; Published: Sept 2002; Author: Aleesha KhanNaming The Evildoers: Militant Islam Reaches America
Source: New York Times BOOK REVIEW; Published:| September 29, 2002; Author: Judith MillerDEPRIVING THE ARABS OF THEIR PREY
Source: WINSTON MID EAST ANALYSIS & Published: September 13, 2002; Author: Emanuel A. WinstonA Hatred Beyond Understanding
Source: Sierra Times; Published: September 9, 2002; Author: Alan CarubaSaving Islam from bin Laden [Christopher Hitchens]
Source:The Age (Melbourne); Published: September 5 2002; Author: Christopher HitchensMuslim leaders pledge to 'transform West': 'If Islamic state rises, we will be its army'
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: August 13, 2002; Author: Jon DoughertyWHAT went wrong with the Arab world?
Source: Economist; Published: July 10, 2002Today's Criminal Will Become Tomorrow's Islamic Terrorist
Source: CNSnews.com; Published: June 25, 2002; Author: C.T. RossiDavid Horowitz: Know The Enemy (And What He Believes)
Source: FrontPage magazine; Published: June 24, 2002; Author: David HorowitzFour Myths About Muslims
Source: CNSNews.com; Published: June 13, 2002; Author: C.T. RossiTrying To Find A `Moderate' Islam Is A Quixotic Quest
Source: CNSNews.com; Published: May 20, 2002; Author: C.T. RossiThe Islaming of Europe
Source: CNSNews.com; Published: May 20, 2002; Author: Alan CarubaWhy Islam Can't Join the Modern World
Source: FrontPageMagazine.com; Published: May 16, 2002; Author: Jamie GlazovIt's The Attitude, Stupid [re: Palestinians]
Source: Toogood Reports; Published: May 14, 2002; Author: Philip SafranReports of Moderate Islam's Existence Have Been Greatly Exaggerated
Source: CNSNews.com; Published: April 22, 2002; Author: C.T. RossiIt's time to snap out of Arab fantasy land {Steyn}
Source: National Post; Published: April 19 2002; Author: Mark SteynHOROWITZ: A MIDDLE EAST HISTORY PRIMER
Source: News and Opinion.com; Published; April 10, 2002; Author: David HorowitzArafat Must Go!
Source: CNSNews.com; Published: April 10, 2002; Author: Alan CarubaNetanyahu speaks before US Senators
Source: http://netanyahu.org/netspeacinse.html; Published: April 10, 2002; Author: Benjamin Netanyahu20 Suppressed Facts About Israel, Islam
Source: Koenig's International News; Published: April 9, 2002; Author: Jim BramlettThey Live to Die (Islam Martyrdom)
Source: Wall Street Journal; Published: April 7, 2002; Author: Reuel Marc GerechtMoral Fortitude Vs. Vacillation
Source: CNSNews.com ; Published: April 01, 2002; Author: Alan CarubaTerror's Homebase, All Over The Map -- Jihad: The Trail of Political Islam
Source: Wall Street Journal-- Book Review; Published: | March 29, 2002; Author: Adrian KaratnyckyIslam Vs. The World
Source: Toogood Reports; Published: December 2, 2001; Author: Alan CarubaArab World Poverty -- Whose Fault?
Source: Capitalism Magazine; Published: 11/18/01; Author: Larry ElderWill the Real Islam Please Stand Up!
Source:Van Jenerette Editorial Comment, Various Publications;
Published: October 14, 2001; Author: Van JeneretteCivilization Envy
Source: National Review Online; Published: September 28, 2001; Author: Jonah GoldbergWhat We Are Up Against: Islamic Jihad Factories
Source: New York Times Magazine; Published: July 25, 2000; Author: Jeffrey Goldberg
There are close to ten million American Muslims. There have been Muslims in America since 1790. How have they managed NOT to wage war on the US?What stage are Turkish Muslims at? How about Indonesian Muslims?When you are weak, take advantage of the protections of the society you live in, and work on growing more powerful
When you are stronger, start demanding to be accomodated by those around you. Demand they cease doing things that "offend" you, and create trouble for those that criticise you
When you are in control, liquidate those who oppose you, and terrorise the rest
American Muslims were in stage I, are now in stage II, and dream of stage III.
-Eric
To accomplish this, they spend their time spreading lies and misinformation...sort of like your post.
Well said.
Believe me. I am no fan of Islam.
But these people trying to instigate religious war... on BOTH sides, don't know what they are doing.
PLEASE PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO ITEM #8.
The True Furqan can be located on HERE or HERE
The following is Dr. Shorrosh's analysis of Islamic invasion of America, the agenda of Islamists and visible methods to take over America by the year 2020! Will Americans continue to sleep through this invasion as they did when we were attacked on 9/11?
1. Terminate America's freedom of speech by replacing it with hate crime bills state-wide and nation-wide.
2. Wage a war of words using black leaders like Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities to promote Islam as the original African-American's religion while Christianity is for the whites! Strange enough, no one tells the African-Americans that it was the Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves, neither the fact that in Arabic the word for black and slave is the same, "Abed."
3. Engage the American public in dialogues, discussions, debates in colleges, universities, public libraries, radio, TV, churches and mosques on the virtues of Islam. Proclaim how it is historically another religion like Judaism and Christianity with the same monotheistic faith.
4. Nominate Muslim sympathizers to political office for favorable legislation to Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting.
5. Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the internet by buying the corporations or a controlling stock.
6. Yield to the fear of imminent shut-off of the lifeblood of America - the black gold. America's economy depends on oil,1000 products are derived from oil), so does its personal and industrial transportation and manufacturing -41% comes from the Middle East.
7. Yell, "foul, out-of-context, personal interpretation, hate crime, Zionist, un-American, inaccurate interpretation of the Quran" time Islam is criticized or the Quran is analyzed in the public arena.
8. Encourage Muslims to penetrate the White House, specifically with Islamists who can articulate a marvelous and peaceful picture of Islam. Acquire government positions, get membership in local school boards. Train Muslims as medical doctors to dominate the medical field, research and pharmaceutical companies. Take over the computer industry. Establish Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the U.S. to connect planners of Islamization in a discreet way.
Ever notice how numerous Muslim doctors in America are, when their countries need them more desperately than America?
9. Accelerate Islamic demographic growth via:
a. Massive immigration (100,000 annually since 1961)
b. No birth control whatsoever - every baby of Muslim parents is automatically a Muslim and cannot choose another religion later.
c. Muslim men must marry American women and Islamize them (10,000 annually). Then divorce them and remarry every five years - since one cannot have the Muslim legal permission to marry four at one time. This is a legal solution in America.
d. Convert angry, alienated black inmates and turn them into militants (so far 2000 released inmates have joined Al Qaida world-wide). Only a few have been captured in Afghanistan and on American soil. So far - sleeping cells!
10. Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are 300 exclusively Muslim schools with loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution.
11. Provide very sizeable monetary Muslim grants to colleges and universities in America to establish "Centers for Islamic studies" with Muslim directors to promote Islam in higher education institutions.
12. Let the entire world know through propaganda, speeches, seminars, local and national media that terrorists have hijacked Islam, not the truth, which is Islam hijacked the terrorists. Furthermore in January of 2002, Saudi Arabia's Embassy in Washington mailed 4500 packets of the Quran, videos, promoting Islam to America's high schools--free. They would never allow us to reciprocate.
13. Appeal to the historically compassionate and sensitive Americans for sympathy and tolerance towards the Muslims in America who are portrayed as mainly immigrants from oppressed countries.
14. Nullify America's sense of security by manipulating the intelligence community with misinformation. Periodically terrorize Americans of impending attacks on bridges, tunnels, water supplies, airports, apartment buildings and malls. (We have experienced this too often since 9-11.) 15. Form riots and demonstrations in the prison system demanding Islamic Sharia as the way of life, not American's justice system.
16. Open numerous charities throughout the U.S. but use the funds to support Islamic terrorism with American dollars.
17. Raise interest in Islam on America's campuses by insisting that freshman take at least one course on Islam. Be sure that the writer is a bonafide American, Christian, scholarly and able to cover up the violence in the Quran and express the peaceful, spiritual and religious aspect only.
18. Unify the numerous Muslim lobbies in Washington, mosques, Islamic student centers, educational organizations, magazines and papers by internet and an annual convention to coordinate plans, propagate the faith and engender news in the media of their visibility.
19. Send intimidating messages and messengers to the outspoken individuals who are critical of Islam and seek to eliminate them by hook or crook.
20. Applaud Muslims as loyal citizens of the US by spotlighting their voting record as the highest percentage of all minority and ethic groups in America.
Contrast this where bloody horror is conducted because it is MANDATED by Islam.
I'm sure this distinction can really be appreciated by the millions of murdered babies..... who number more than all humans killed in every modern war put together.
Besides, God judges and holds the church responsible first, above and beyond those who don't know the truth, such a Muslims.
If there is a God, and he does not change, is a righteous God, and deals with sin the same in every generation, how can He overlook the abortion issue?
He can't and He doesn't.
I agree, but the real problem with Islam is that their prophet was militant and intolerant. He recognized that other religions existed before his, but steadfastly maintained that his religion replaced them and that his followers should enforce this belief with violent means. This position cannot stand in a world with so many beliefs.
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