Commuter Plane Crash @ Charlotte NC Airport (BREAKING)

www.msnbc.com ^ | 8 Jan 03 | MSNBC

[TankerKC]

Breaking news. Charlotte to Greenville flight--19 on board. Crashed on takeoff into a US Airways hangar.

More to follow...

[safisoft]

Look at the suplemental rudders off the horizontal stab. it needs to meet stability guidelines!

You've got that right! One way to guage the weaknesses of a design is to see how it was "modified" over the years. This aircraft in original form was designed as the "Twin Bonaza" in the early 1950s, and borrowed from the "Twin Beech 18". From it came the Queen Air and King Air. The original commercial airline version was called the Beech 99. It was radically expanded in the 1980s to the Beech 1900. To support the increase in engine power and deal with VMC issues, all sorts of weird stabilizer configuartions were added to the original design. In addition, it has serious center of gravity issues. The original Beech 99 (I flew for 3 years) was bad enough - add more thrust, and more length and it becomes all the more unstable.

When a crash occurs, it is rare when the professionals do not know pretty quickly the most likely cause. The armchair experts on TV etc. "blah, blah" their way through all the possibilities, but most people who know about aviation can recognize early on what was likely the cause. We say, "wait until the investigation" because there are likely MULTIPLE causal effects - but there is usually a SINGLE event that is major cause. In most cases, aircraft control may cause the aircraft to inpact the ground, but that (loss of control) is usually an EFFECT of a more major event. In this case, it is likely that it is an engine failure, which lead to a loss of control because of slow speed and assymetrical thrust (one engine producing max thrust and the other failed).

A Jetstream commuter aircraft a few years ago in Raleigh Durham had an almost identical accident: on takeoff, aircraft rolled and impacted into a lake on airport property. The cause was determined to be a loss of control from an engine failure.

[Archangelsk]

Spoken like a true aerodynamicist who just looked at some performance charts. By the way DH is decision height and is used for precision approaches.

[southernnorthcarolina]

This is the third fatal crash at/near the Charlotte airport in my memory.

In the 70s, an Eastern Airlines jet crashed short of the runway, inbound, I think in good weather (maybe some ground fog, but no storms). Don't remember much about it; I think the cause remains a mystery.

In the early 90s, a US Air jet crashed to the right of a runway, was trying to beat a thunderstorm moving in, I guess the pilot and tower thought there was a window there. Wind shear, deadly when you're on approach at speeds just above stall speed. One thing sticks in my mind on that one. Within minutes, there was a traffic jam at the Red Cross with people coming to donate blood for the victims. An immediate instinctive reaction, the desire to help, and it speaks well of our town; sadly, it wasn't needed.

The current case sure sounds like a case of overloading or load shift, leading to a stall. Witnesses reporting an extreme angle of ascent before the crash. Weather was certainly not a factor. Good visibility, high broken clouds, 50-ish.

CBS radio was just on with a report that the pilot was female. Newsworthy, I suppose, but it seemed gratuitous in the way they reported the fact. I'm a male and anything but a feminist, but it seemed like a cheap shot.

[Marie Antoinette]

Ping for my favorite flight student...

[Big Giant Head]

Got it. I like these aircraft, too.

[Texas Mom]

I am in Alvin and prefer Hobby.. and going through Pearland on a weekend can be quite an experience..

[SunnyUsa]

Sreenivasa Badam
Ganeshram Sreenivasan
These were outstanding young men and will be sorely missed here. Please keep them, their families, and their friends in your thoughts and prayers.

A quick google search on both these men's names brings up their 'home page' at clemson university....they were from India, young and full of life...graduate students.

I'm sure every name on that plane's list will show someone dearly loved and tragically lost.

[fortheDeclaration]

Prayers for you and your parents. Please let us know as soon as you are able to confirm their safety.

Amen!

[agincourt1415]

APreport 8 min ago: eye witness report said the plane went into a steep climb that looked wrong, and then spiraled down to the ground. Hmmmm, control cables, trim runaway, prop runaway, aft CG, it could be a lot of things. I can't beleive an airline would improperly load an aircraft, and the CG range on a 1900D should be pretty forgiving I would think. They fly the airplane with Trim according to the NOTAM I read.

[agincourt1415]

Talking to myself, I fly with Trim and with the luxury of Electric Trim you would make an adjustment after takeoff to go into a stable climb. All good pilots trim and relax, takes the pressure off the controls in any attitude like an established climb angle. But if the electric trim or the auto pilot does something strange, you would suddenly be in a violent tug of war with an electric servo. With no time to pop a circuit breaker.

[snopercod]

Mary Schiavo? God, is she still making an ass of herself in public?

[pitinkie]

Yes

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

When you speak of ' rag heads', do you mean that they have a Raggedy Ann and Andy factory, or are you just being a bigot?

[snopercod]

The weather this morning at CLT:
081655 081651Z 24007KT 10SM BKN250 12/M02 A2973 RMK
AO2 SLP068 
T01221017 
081608 081551Z 24008KT 10SM FEW140 BKN250 09/M03
A2975 RMK AO2 
SLP076 T00941033 
081537 081451Z 24008KT 210V290 10SM FEW140 BKN250
07/M04 A2977 
RMK AO2 SLP083 T00671044 53008 
081354 081351Z 23007KT 10SM SCT140 BKN250 04/M06
A2976 RMK AO2 
SLP079 T00391061 
081254 081251Z 22006KT 10SM SCT140 BKN250 03/M07
A2975 RMK AO2 
SLP075 T00331072 
081155 081151Z VRB06KT 10SM BKN250 03/M08 A2975 RMK
AO2 SLP076 
T00281078 10033 20022 56015 
081055 081051Z 21007KT 170V240 10SM BKN250 03/M09
A2976 RMK 
AO2 SLP080 T00281089 
080955 080951Z 23007KT 190V270 10SM BKN250 03/M10
A2977 RMK 
AO2 SLP084 T00281100 ‡ 

[TankerKC]

But if the electric trim or the auto pilot does something strange, you would suddenly be in a violent tug of war with an electric servo. With no time to pop a circuit breaker.

Under normal operation most autopilots should kick off or "slip" if the pilot tries over ride it with control inputs (under normal operations). Automatic trim can be another story. It can quickly run away and the pilot can chase it until he gets it disabled.

[getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL]

Try this: stick your hand out the window of a car. Like a wing airfoil you can shape your hand so it is "lifted" by the air. Now increase the angle of your hand. Eventually, your hand becomes like a dam to the air - that is the extreme of a "high angle of attack".

Hey, I like that explanation! Thanks for helping me out! How long have you been flying?

[MindBender26]

Airline misloading, ArrowAir DC-8 Miami, few years ago. Once got a Bonanza (V-Tailed Doctor Killer) just slightly tail heavy. Scared the hell out of myself!

If was an "uncommanded climb to stall" there is another possiiblity. About 30 years ago, a cargo 707 (?) departing JFK got a rock stuck between the horizontal stabalizer and the elevator. When they rotated, couldn't take the up elevator off, and A/C went nearly vertical up.... then vertical down.

[MindBender26]

But if you get a runaway electric trim, and you command a reverse trip in the other direction, that pops the breaker.

Wonder if some 24 year old hero pilot forgot to check trim? ( I have.... ONCE!) Crash analysis should tell.

[agincourt1415]

Yeah, misloading can bite you. I can imagine a Bonanza could be a handful, the Baron has a little reputation too.

There's a few nightmare cargo shift accidents.

But the 1900 is not a rocket science aircraft to load, I have even seen them with an underbelly baggage pods.

You should see my antics with the Cherokee Six - 260, I always tell my passengers to carry under 20 pounds of bags, and leave some margin for (wives with cosmetics Trunks)LOL.

Flew to Abbacos Loaded and I place the heavy stuff on the Wing Box between seats.

But I never, ever go over Gross and I do a CG calculation, and made one passenger decide on a Laptop computer or clothes. He took the Laptop, LOL.

Its just a shame that the pilot couldn't get control of that climb angle, be interesting to see what the NTSB comes up with.

So you flying of of EXECUTIVE? I fly out of X04.