Posted on 12/21/2002 8:57:28 AM PST by madfly
Must be a treat to be looking out into the asylum courtyard from your tiny cell window, humming John Lennon's 'Imagine'...
Either that or some of these people are getting rich off the backs of illegal aliens and will resort to any tactic to keep the gravy train from getting disrupted.
In fact, our beginnings on this continent is one example.
The point is you lied about the post # and the presence of a link in another blatant attempt at manipulation. The source is there.
That's not the impression I got from your posts, but if you're against illegal immigration, fine, then we agree.
But legal immigration? You bet.
And I'm in favor of it too, within reason. During the eighties and the economic boom we took in 500,000 annually, what was wrong with that number? Reagan didn't increase it to a million a year, George Bush Sr. did. Immigration is one thing, but we're being swamped. After 1924 and the Great Wave we had a rest period for 40 years. I'd say it's time for another one. Not cut off immigration completely, just bring it back down to more traditional levels.
Ah, but my dear sir, it IS inevitable. The reason for this is simple: it's already a done deal. The illegals are outbreeding the productive sectors of society by a significant margin. If you live in SoCal, a little drive down Harbor Blvd will open your eyes. Take it out a generation or so, and it's obvious to anyone what's happening.
Pesonally, I don't mind any longer. There's something called the 5 stages of grief: denial, anger, attempted resolution, depression, acceptance. Those of us who fought the earliest battles over Prop 187 back in the early 90s are well past stage 5. They won. Accept it and start dealing with how society will be structured in the future.
Me, I look to So. America. After all, if the US was merely a reflection of the societies/cultures/values of its earliest immigrants, then why would this not hold true today? The point is, it does. Therefore, the US will tend to increasingly resemble Mexico City ie where the immigrants are coming from today.
Is this a bad thing? No, not really, as long as you're part of the productive class. The wealthy/middle-classes in So American live like kings - their purchasing power is tremendous. We're already experiencing that in SoCal - no one I know never does any of their own yard-work, etc.
One other thing: I think the real opposition to illegal immigration is NOT because it's against the law. It's skills and education. If the illegals where all engineers, there wouldn't be a peep. How often are these threads directed at Asians? None, even though there is a significant amount of 'illegal' immigration coming from there as well.
ALPHABETICAL LISTING OF LAPD'S MOST WANTED CRIMINALS
Ben, referencing #25, before you think that I am being manipulated, please reread the capital letter sentence, especially the heavy bold words.
Do you see the difference between your sentence and mine? ie., prison population vs most wanted. I did not give you a listing for criminals names in prisons. My point is and was that these illegals come here, commit crimes and flee back to Mexico.
The percentage of crimes commited by legal hispanics is much lower than that of illegal hispanics. Can you understand why? The legal hispanics obeyed our laws of immigration and did not come here looking for victims. They came here to enhance their lives legally. BIG DIFFERENCE IN THE TWO GROUPS!
My: "Americans are people who live in America."
Your: "Correction: Americans are those people who are citizens of the United States of America.
Get to the spirit of my comment. Or do you deny aspiring Americans, too? Good thing LaFayette didn't run into this sentiment in 1776. Btw, the Supreme Court long ago ruled that non-citizens are party to American constitutional rights. Do you disagree?
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Reaganwuzthebest:
You'll find most people on these threads are not anti-immigration, but against illegal immigration... The point you're missing is either we're a nation of laws or we're not... Personally I don't even see how this issue is debatable.By the same logic, prohibition, the 55 mph, 70% tax rates, War on Drugs confiscation of property, etc. were/are not debatable simply because they were/are the law? I repeat:
malum prohibitum, non malum in seIf the law does not accomodate reality, the law loses its meaning. You'll probably think I'm suggesting we liberalize immigration. Read me carefully: I'm suggesting that we consider the effect of our laws. Tightening enforcement won't make the law anymore effective. Didn't work during prohibition, didn't work with the '55', and it don't work with WOD.
Your argument should not be against the failure of enforcement, it should be against legalized incentives for immigration. Every immigrant for himself. NO WELFARE FOR IMMIGRANTS, legal or otherwise. I know you people say this all the time. However, the anger speaks louder than the logic. The message is lost in the noise.
I was accused on this thread of somehow opposing Prop. 187. I guess that's because I said people will continue adn always try to get into this country, legally or otherwise. I am not for rewarding illegals.
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Fitz:
The answer to Mexico and all of Central and South America's problems isn't to have every last of their citizens move here... Really there is no good reason prosperity ends at the Rio Grande.Yes. Meanwhile, nothing's gonna change down there. I know it well. The very worst problem in Latin America is unequal justice. I've seen the system at work. They are corrupt to the bone (Chile excepting). Latin America doesn't need the "Chicago Boys" or American capitalism. It needs American courts.
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Nanny:
My: Defeatist attitudes lead to defeat. If the sky's gonna fall, it's gonna fall on me without my umbrella.
Your: Sounds like some things that were probably said to the patriots in 1770 something.
Quite the opposite. The defeatist arguments of 1770 were against change. It was the patriots who spread optimisim and glory and hope. There's sad little hope on this thread.
You wrote,
Our present situation of illegal immigration has bestowed the rights of citizenship in this nation without price, burden, or sacrifice. I understand why citizenship has no meaning for many - I have always found it to be true that if you do not have to pay for something, you don't hold it dear. TI don't know that citizenship is any easier today than ever before. Unless, of course, you were a jew on a boat in the Carribean in the 1930/40s. Too bad they didn't have the El Paso map to get in. Rich jews got in. Same thing during the 1890s. To paraphrase your Momma, same as it ever was don't make it right. Just 'cuz it aint' right don't mean it ain't happening.
I'll repeat from above, for you are absolutely correct on this: illegal immigration ought not be rewarded.
You're seeing something as inevitable that may not be. Are you aware there's a case right now in federal court that could determine that children of illegals are not necessarily automatic citizens?
The case itself involves a son born here to Saudi parents, but if the government wins in the Supreme Court the implications are enormous in that when illegals are deported, their children go with them. It also take away a huge incentive that illegals now have for crossing the border, that anchor baby which allows them to stay and bring in their families.
It would change if we quit being the safety valve and it might change anyhow even if we keep on. Mexico seems to be getting pretty unstable ---we might not like the way the next election goes.
the problem with illegal immigration is that it has enabled the terrorists to cross using the same network.Did you notice a different tone on this thread tonight? Folks are finding more in common than before. It is generally agreed that illegal immigration is repugnant. The parting comes at immigration in general. I find the solutions for illegal immigration defective. Ultimately, the only way to control the illegal immigration, as you suggest is an imperative, is to legalize it -- entirely.
The anti's here don't want that. I'm not saying it'd be good thing. It is the only workable solution, if you're looking for ultimate solutions.
Who's gonna want to legalize the illegals? Not me. That's an incentive for more. No Chinese Wall is gonna stop 'em. And, as I said, border crossings are only half the problem. We'd better get around to dealing with the problem more effectively, and with more constructive rhetoric.
Thanks for your post, Nukem'. You are correctly alarmed in this regard you mention.
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