Immigration: Where is the OUTRAGE??

The Sierra Times ^ | Dec. 20, 2002 | Jackie Juntti

[madfly]

I have been surfing the many news pages for months, and all the headlines, for the most part on a daily basis, mention the "War" in the Middle East. It is either Iraq, bin Laden, Palestine, Saudi Arabia or the like. Many articles about America going to fight over in that part of the world - the pretext being that we are fighting "terrorism".

I have yet to see headlines about the Invasion of America on our Southern Border. The SILENCE is deafening on this topic. The only time I read articles related to the Mexican invasion is when one or another ILLEGAL INVADER is spotlighted as not being able to get "instate tuition" at some tax funded school, or one of them needs very expensive medical care. All of this type of "news" coverage is based upon the bleeding heart mentality that we rich Americans should be opening our national door and bringing in all who wish to come and benefit from our years of hard work.

We have laws regarding "immigration" and we have a procedure to be followed to legally enter America. Many foreigners follow those rules and eventually are able to enter - legally - and then apply to become citizens. I welcome each and every one of those people. Members of my family originally entered America in this manner, coming in through Ellis Island. Another part of my family was here to greet them, as they were native Americans.

I can't fathom the silence of the media in reporting on the stealth invasion of America by all those who avoid detection at legal entry points. I can't understand why they are not making this a daily headline, with the numbers in bold print as they did during the Viet Nam war with the body counts.

I can't fathom why Bush, Cheney, Colin Powell, Ashcroft, and all those in Congress are not doing daily press conferences, alerting Americans to the invasion that has been, and continues to take place every single day of the year.

Where is the OUTRAGE they had following Sept. 11th? Do we need planes diving into buildings and fires raging in order to stand in front of cameras saying that AMERICA IS UNDER ATTACK!!!

Why are the leaders of this nation so silent on this INVASION at our Southern Border? What is the back room deal that has been cut to keep the Welcome Wagon Ladies standing there, tables heaped high with goodies paid for by the America taxpayer? Why are we not condemning Vicente Fox for sending in his stealth operatives as we condemn Osama bin Laden and his ilk? What is the difference?

We have almost daily "ALERTS!" about some threat of some kind from the "terrorists" but nothing about the INVASION of AMERICA from Mexico and elsewhere. Why is there such SILENCE on this matter?

Recently, Rudy Giulliani went to Mexico as a consultant to deal with the alarming crime rate there. In fact, he was alleged to be the target of a kidnapping attempt while there. I hope "dealing with the Mexican crime rate" doesn't mean sending them North to the U.S. Vicente Fox and his Coyotes have been doing that job already, and quite successfully.

I can hardly wait for Sen. 'Chatty' Patty Murray of Washington to hold a press conference exclaiming how Fox & Coyotes have built schools and all those same good things she is now applauding bin Laden for. Perhaps we will have Jim McDermott standing along side of her telling of his recent visit and how wonderful those folks are that just want to find a "better life" in America. Even better would be for all this to be "Bipartisan", and all those GOP politicians could stand with them pushing open the borders so everyone can have a miserable life when America is finally brought to her knees by the INVASION taking place before our eyes.

I am telling you, there is something mighty strange going on. America is being invaded and the leaders of America are pushing to open the gate even wider to the invaders. They have already granted AMNESTY to thousands and now want to grant more options for the last wave of invaders. They are keeping a lid on any news that exposes this invasion - twisting it to promote only the "plight" of those poor downtrodden ILLEGALS, so as to build up more bleeding hearts to open our homes to the invading troops. They won't even refer to them as what they are - illegal invading troops - they refer to them as "undocumented aliens" - that is supposed to make us feel sorry for them and to ignore the fact that our laws have been violated.

We also have George W. Bush - the president of AMERICA - opening the Social Security benefits to Mexicans. I guess welfare, education, health care, housing, unemployment, isn't enough. We need to send them SS checks too.

Maybe we should bring Rudy Giulliani back here to deal with the ALARMING CRIME RATE in the Federal Government. We have men in high places openly subverting American law and our Constitution. If nothing else, maybe Rudy, with his recent experience at attending funerals, could officiate over the death of America as we knew it.

Where is the OUTRAGE?

Bye, bye, Miss American Pie, Drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry. Them good ol' boys were drinking whiskey and rye Singing 'This'll be the day that I die, 'This'll be the day that I die.'"

© 2002 SierraTimes.com (unless otherwise noted)

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Seems like the police dog ( a german shepard named Sean ) knows what to do about illegals who are criminals.

These knuckledraggers were lucky, the dog's treatment was light compared to what they deserve. Years ago NY had the electric chair, what a waste to retire it, seems to me its presence would fit nicely with the "current" times the open border fanatics are bringing us.

[Missouri]

>> the dog's treatment was light compared to what they deserve.<<


No argument here. I had read on a different article that the cops had trouble getting the dog off one of the criminals and was bite up pretty bad ( or good ).
We need to strictly limit all immigration for a while so we can find out who belongs here and who doesn't. That doesn't seem that unreasonable. After all what is to first thing a plumber does before he starts a job ? He turns the water off.

[greggery_peccary]

"2. When information is considered by those who make decisions of policy, the nativist websites are not considered. When Alan Greenspan goes before Congress to make a presetation on the labor supply, immigration quotas, and inflation, he won't be using any statistics from V Dare. When Congress considers the pros and cons of illegal immigration as a relief valve, they won't be consulting Pat Buchanan."

Since I deal with this problem every day in southern Arizona, I can easily say that the websites you mentioned are very accurate in what they present. I have found organizations like FAIR and CIS present far better depictions of the extent of the problem than the talking heads of INS ever will.

As more people are becoming aware of the extent of the problem of ILLEGAL immigration, any public officials who arbitrarily blow off the statistics and information provided by these organizations/website will do so at their own peril.

[judgeandjury]

Great post #194!

[Reaganwuzthebest]

We need to strictly limit all immigration for a while so we can find out who belongs here and who doesn't. That doesn't seem that unreasonable.

Nor to me either. In the last 35 years we have taken in nearly 40 million immigrants, at least that's what they estimate. It's more than that because of massive unknown numbers of illegal immigration.

We do need a time-out. We need to close the borders and enforce our laws. But Bush will never stand for it, so in 2004 I'm writing in Tancredo.

[B4Ranch]

Ben, Take a look at what Victor Cruz, 22, Jose Hernandez, 18, Louis Carmona, 20, Carlos Rodriguez, 22, and Jesus Torres, 28, are accused of doing to a 42-year-old woman. (booked on kidnapping, robbery, rape and sodomy charges)

Gang of Homeless Men Rapes Woman in N.Y.

Are you proud of your defense of these animals?

[Missouri]

>>so in 2004 I'm writing in Tancredo.<<


I'd hope Tancredo or someone like him would be on the ballot. I'd vote for him. Maybe I'll write him in, too.
I remember telling myself to vote for Buchanan in 2000 based on immigration and the U.N. problem but the more I seen and heard Al Gore before the election my knees got weak and I voted for Bush.
It's hard to see a knight in shining armour over the horizon on this one though.

[viaveritasvita]

So, let me get this straight. In one post, you claimed to be a mexican, then in a subsequent post you claimed to NOT be mexican. I'm sorry, I don't have the time to go back and re-read this thread, but that's my understanding of these two posts. Please explain again your reasoning for misrepresenting yourself. I find that misrepresentation to be very distasteful and causes me to be suspicious of everything you say, which is a shame because some of what you wrote (after you became...well, I'm assuming an American, but after you admitted to NOT being mexican) was interesting. Also, do you generally enjoy speeches by FDR? BTW, nice bit of self-promotion on your profile page. Thanks to 4freedom for passionately sticking up for Americans who are extremely concerned for their country due to the massive leaks at our borders.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

If enough of us get on the Tancredo bandwagon, we could actually turn this into a sizeable movement. I supported Bush in the beginning, but now it's like looking at someone who'd rather be president of Mexico than the US. He still has time to turn things around, but I'm not holding my breath, especially after his Social Security proposal.

[FITZ]

name one Freeper on this thread that has a problem with non-white, LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Actually I do have a problem with the ones who come over and get right onto some kind of welfare program. We see a lot of problems in this area because people can legally come over with a visitor visa, have a baby at taxpayer expense and end up staying and collecting welfare ---they never snuck over the border, they never have to worry about being deported because they have a US citizen baby plus welfare. Same with all those elderly being sponsored by relatives who immediately get them on SSI and Medicaid. Those are legals.

I have much less objection to the guy that leaves his family behind in Mexico and at least is working for every dollar he expects to get although to get here may have had to sneak over and has to find ways to avoid the border patrol. I'd rather see the moochers deported first or never allowed to come. Family reunification laws are much of the problem because the quotas are being filled with those who'll never work but use family connections to come, it can be almost impossible for those who can and do work to come legally.

[FITZ]

Because they paid taxes while working here legally.

That's their choice ---no one begged them to work here, if they don't like our taxes they should work at home. I pay taxes too but don't qualify for welfare programs. If you work past 65, you don't get a social security check even though you paid more taxes into it and continue paying into it. Giving welfare and food stamps to all that qualify in Mexico might sound nice but why stop at Mexico? Guatemalans, Hondurans, Brazilians, Peruvians and all the rest might also like these programs but like Mexico if they do they should make their own programs.

[PissedAtGovt]

A russian immigrant I know told me he moved his grandmother over here. She couldn't speak a lick of english and suffered, as explained to the Social Security Administration, "culture shock". She now is getting regular checks from Social Security.
That seems like subsidized immigration to me. It is nothing BUT AN OUTRAGE. The silence is so deafening I can't stand it!

[Joe Hadenuf]

Your quite welcome.

[FITZ]

"People here have been trying mighty hard to reject that anti-immigration is not anti-non-white. They object to this characterization, saying that they object to Mexicanization, or to a loss of their own culture (they don't say this)."

I guess because you do live so far from the front lines you really don't see the issue. It's not all race as you claim, but much is the loss of the American culture that makes this country quite different from Mexico in the first place. I live in a hispanic area and I can tell you it's not just blond Americans who are affected by the extremely high taxes and falling wages brought on by high immigration.

Over 80% of "latinos" have faced discrimination from other "latinos" ----of course so many people are so intent on racist explanations, the conclusion in this article is so absurd that it suggests that the latinos who thought other latinos discriminated against them just didn't get to meet whites and see what discrimination really is.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5202-2002Dec18.html

An overwhelming majority of Hispanics considered Latino-against-Latino discrimination to be a problem, although views varied according to people's backgrounds. For instance, Colombians and Dominicans were more likely to consider such discrimination a problem than Puerto Ricans.

Among Hispanics, Colombians and Dominicans are relatively newer groups in the United States and may tend more toward living and working in primarily Latino neighborhoods, suggested Mollyann Brodie, director of public opinion and media research at the Kaiser Family Foundation. As a result, their experiences with discrimination may be limited to occurrences involving other Hispanics.

[FITZ]

Over a third of those over 60 years old getting SSI are immigrants. It's an ideal welfare program for immigrants because all they have to be is "depressed" to get in on it and they also get Medicaid.

[FITZ]

It's terrible what those four did ---but anyone who would be surprised hasn't been following events in Mexico along the border. In just Ciudad Juarez alone there have been 350 women and girls murdered in the past few years, many were very mutiliated and some drained of their blood. The open border allows this type to travel back and forth as they please, they recently did catch one wanted by the Mexican police for some of these girls' murders living in Dallas ---illegally of course.

Death Stalks the Border
---a must read for anyone who believes this culture is wonderful in every way ---or that the Mexican officials including Fox care anything about the poor people living in Mexico ---or their deaths unless they are trying to cross the border or be executed by the State of Texas --in which case you'll find Fox wringing his hands and crying out.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/borderdeath/

[nicollo]

Viaveritasvita, I lied when I said I'm Mexican. I'm not. Carried away with the fun last night, I wanted to see where that statement would go. I figured it would either provoke outrage or be understood to be facetious. If I carried the joke too far, I apologize. I was surprised there wasn't more anger at it, or pity, at least as posted. No idea what was thrown at various computer screens.

Waay too much emotion on this thread. When you do re-read the thread, you will note that I already declared sympathy with your sentiments,

Thanks to 4freedom for passionately sticking up for Americans who are extremely concerned for their country due to the massive leaks at our borders.

My problem is with the hysteria. See what we roiled up on this thread alone. Btw, why should I not listen to an FDR speech? If he said something notable, it should be heard. It's not like he never gave a great speech. He was very good at it.

Nanny, if you're worried about childish taunts, take a look at what's been thrown at AustinTparty and others on this thread. And perhaps you didn't see Mr. Hadenuf's #186. That's not argument, it's dumb and doesn't help your side.

Reaganwuzthebest, you wrote about areas such as yours that have no illegals and manage to have clean toilets and cut lawns:

Could you tell us please? Maybe these areas are on the verge of collapsing because of have all those jobs "no one wants to do" but, we just don't know it yet.

I never made any such claim one way or the other. I said that there are illegal immigrants where I live, and they provide valuable services. I said they come here because they want to. The only solution I hear to stopping them from coming is the inane idea to put guards every ten feet on the border. Guess what, border-crossing is not the only immigration problem. Legal-entries illegally staying is as great a problem and just, or more difficult to control. I know it, because I had employees do it to me. They did it because they didn't want to leave the country. They came here on temporary work visas and skipped town when it was time to go home. Illegal immigration doesn't just happen at the southern border. It's going on at JFK, Dulles, O'Hare, etc.

There are solutions, even reasonable solutions. For example, only a decade ago the burden of proof of legal residency was not upon businesses but upon the employee, making it effectively legal for American companies to employ illegals. When I was in business, many of my California suppliers freely employed illegal immigrants. When the INS would raid the production line, the Mexicans would scatter, to the roof, under desks, or running out the door. The machinery would still be running, piling goods on the floor. The next day, they'd all be back at work on time, including those whom the INS hauled away. The law reacted, finally, and demanded that employers take responsibility for the legality of their employees. And, of course, faslified documents have since proliferated. It's an unending struggle that will only cause frustration in a purist. The best we can do is to keep up the pressure, and face the realities.

Unfortuantely, on this thread reasonable people are not allowed to disagree. It ends up a silly game. And all I do is call myself a Mexican. Not good. I don't mind it, and I had fun last night. But it's too bad for your cause to rely on posters who stand on intellectual legs one shorter than the other. They walk in circles.

Look, everybody has a personal story in this. Here is mine:

The name is Michael Ladd Bromley, direct descendent of the earlist Massachusetts settlers, on one side, and of the great Custis and Carter families of Virginia, on the other. I have a worthless B.A. in writing from a small NY state country club college. I have written two books. I am starting my third now. I built from zero a multi-million dollar business in exporting and distribution of American products in South America. Over my ten year business career, I added over one hundred million dollars to the U.S. trade balance, and helped create I don't know how many American jobs. I started the business because I heard the President say "Export for a stronger America." That was Ronald Reagan. I was 25 years old, and I listened. For me, it was like enlisting.

I have worked and lived in South America. I have been in almost every State in the Union. I have employed legal immigrants. I have employed Americans. I have employed South Americans in their countries. I ran and set up distribution there for major U.S. corporations, names you would recognize. I have lived in Miami, one of the front-lines of illegal immigration. I have have seen its effects, good and bad. I married twice to South Americans. They were both insane, which is why they married me. My first child was born in South America.

I hope that straightens out my Mexican heritage. My children are American citizens. Their mother recently became one.

[As long as I'm going with full disclosure here, in 1995 my principal business, in Brazil, was taken over by a major U.S. corporation. I got sick of it all, and took off with a girl I knew. I completely punted everything. The first ex. took what was left, and what was left of that I gave to the soon after 2nd ex. Totally broke, I decided to do what I always wanted, and write books. I supported myself driving for a limousine service at nights while I worked on a fiction piece during the day. I realized I couldn't break into the writing business, so I put aside the fiction and decided upon a non-fiction subject that might have some popular appeal. Driving around a limousine... somehow the idea came to me. It took four years, and my 2nd book took 3. It comes out next June, hopefully.

[Btw, working in the livery business, I encountered illegal immigrants right and left. I worked beside them and competed against them. I know what they do, how they do it, and why.] Some people feel threatened, others vindicated by immigration. I'm saying that the problem will not be solved by blaming all our ills on illegal immigration (I'll say the same to the opposite view point, that immigration ain't a cure). The problem is the leftist politics which enable it. Their opposite extreme is just as shortsighted.

The greatest fallacy at work on both sides of the matter is the assumption that what is today will be, also, tommorrow. America is the most dynamic, invigorated culture and politic in history. Re-read AustinTparty's no. 178. Take a long breath, relax, and read it with reason, not emotion. If that doesn't help you, go read de Tocqueville's Democracy in America. He wrote the book before massive immigration, but he understood what it would mean. And why.

If you want to stop immigration, the only way will be to make America a crappy place to live. You'll say that illegal immigrants are doing just that. Well, by that logic the problem will fix itself, so who's upset?

Defeatist attitudes lead to defeat. What the anti-immigrant agitators need most is a dose of happy juice. The hysterical rhetoric smells of leftist whining, and tastes just as bad.

If the sky's gonna fall, it's gonna fall on me without my umbrella.

[nicollo]

Your no. 214. Its the same as it always was. The brits and europeans of hte 19th century and early 20th brought all their stupid, petty jealousies and prejudices with them. They got over it, a generation or two.

Since you live in an hispanic area, you ought know the difference between the early and later generations. When they don't assimilate and become americans, they stay stupid, backward immigrants. When they do, they become Americans. Not culturally, but politically, which means playing as Americans play, not as in the old country.

Your post reminds me of my first wife, a latin. She would get upset at me for making fun of latins. That was when we lived in Maryland, outside of latin areas. When we moved to Miami, she was exposed for the first time to latin culture in America. We were driving in Miami one day, and we passed a group of latins hanging out by a pancho cart. They were being themselves. She turned to me and said, with horror in her eyes, "NOW, I know what a spic is."

She said it, not me.

[FITZ]

If you want to stop immigration, the only way will be to make America a crappy place to live.

Or have Mexicans make their own place decent ---which they might if we weren't an every growing safety valve so the corrupt elites can continue on as they do. The answer to Mexico and all of Central and South America's problems isn't to have every last of their citizens move here. At some point we have to realize that a handful of countries can't be the only places in the world with a decent lifestyle. It's time instead for our government to tell Mexico to straighten up it's act. Really there is no good reason prosperity ends at the Rio Grande.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

What the anti-immigrant agitators need most is a dose of happy juice.

You'll find most people on these threads are not anti-immigration, but against illegal immigration. I used to work with many illegal aliens, some lived in my apartment complex in Arizona. Most of them were not threatening in any way, and in fact were hard workers.

The point you're missing is either we're a nation of laws or we're not. We take in almost 1 million legally a year, some of them are in my area, mostly from Europe, but it does explain why we don't have a need for illegal immigration. 9/11 should have taught us we must know who's coming in and out, and it has to be kept orderly. Personally I don't even see how this issue is debatable.