Waay too much emotion on this thread. When you do re-read the thread, you will note that I already declared sympathy with your sentiments,
Thanks to 4freedom for passionately sticking up for Americans who are extremely concerned for their country due to the massive leaks at our borders.My problem is with the hysteria. See what we roiled up on this thread alone. Btw, why should I not listen to an FDR speech? If he said something notable, it should be heard. It's not like he never gave a great speech. He was very good at it.
Nanny, if you're worried about childish taunts, take a look at what's been thrown at AustinTparty and others on this thread. And perhaps you didn't see Mr. Hadenuf's #186. That's not argument, it's dumb and doesn't help your side.
Reaganwuzthebest, you wrote about areas such as yours that have no illegals and manage to have clean toilets and cut lawns:
Could you tell us please? Maybe these areas are on the verge of collapsing because of have all those jobs "no one wants to do" but, we just don't know it yet.I never made any such claim one way or the other. I said that there are illegal immigrants where I live, and they provide valuable services. I said they come here because they want to. The only solution I hear to stopping them from coming is the inane idea to put guards every ten feet on the border. Guess what, border-crossing is not the only immigration problem. Legal-entries illegally staying is as great a problem and just, or more difficult to control. I know it, because I had employees do it to me. They did it because they didn't want to leave the country. They came here on temporary work visas and skipped town when it was time to go home. Illegal immigration doesn't just happen at the southern border. It's going on at JFK, Dulles, O'Hare, etc.
There are solutions, even reasonable solutions. For example, only a decade ago the burden of proof of legal residency was not upon businesses but upon the employee, making it effectively legal for American companies to employ illegals. When I was in business, many of my California suppliers freely employed illegal immigrants. When the INS would raid the production line, the Mexicans would scatter, to the roof, under desks, or running out the door. The machinery would still be running, piling goods on the floor. The next day, they'd all be back at work on time, including those whom the INS hauled away. The law reacted, finally, and demanded that employers take responsibility for the legality of their employees. And, of course, faslified documents have since proliferated. It's an unending struggle that will only cause frustration in a purist. The best we can do is to keep up the pressure, and face the realities.
Unfortuantely, on this thread reasonable people are not allowed to disagree. It ends up a silly game. And all I do is call myself a Mexican. Not good. I don't mind it, and I had fun last night. But it's too bad for your cause to rely on posters who stand on intellectual legs one shorter than the other. They walk in circles.
Look, everybody has a personal story in this. Here is mine:
The name is Michael Ladd Bromley, direct descendent of the earlist Massachusetts settlers, on one side, and of the great Custis and Carter families of Virginia, on the other. I have a worthless B.A. in writing from a small NY state country club college. I have written two books. I am starting my third now. I built from zero a multi-million dollar business in exporting and distribution of American products in South America. Over my ten year business career, I added over one hundred million dollars to the U.S. trade balance, and helped create I don't know how many American jobs. I started the business because I heard the President say "Export for a stronger America." That was Ronald Reagan. I was 25 years old, and I listened. For me, it was like enlisting.
I have worked and lived in South America. I have been in almost every State in the Union. I have employed legal immigrants. I have employed Americans. I have employed South Americans in their countries. I ran and set up distribution there for major U.S. corporations, names you would recognize. I have lived in Miami, one of the front-lines of illegal immigration. I have have seen its effects, good and bad. I married twice to South Americans. They were both insane, which is why they married me. My first child was born in South America.
I hope that straightens out my Mexican heritage. My children are American citizens. Their mother recently became one.
[As long as I'm going with full disclosure here, in 1995 my principal business, in Brazil, was taken over by a major U.S. corporation. I got sick of it all, and took off with a girl I knew. I completely punted everything. The first ex. took what was left, and what was left of that I gave to the soon after 2nd ex. Totally broke, I decided to do what I always wanted, and write books. I supported myself driving for a limousine service at nights while I worked on a fiction piece during the day. I realized I couldn't break into the writing business, so I put aside the fiction and decided upon a non-fiction subject that might have some popular appeal. Driving around a limousine... somehow the idea came to me. It took four years, and my 2nd book took 3. It comes out next June, hopefully.
[Btw, working in the livery business, I encountered illegal immigrants right and left. I worked beside them and competed against them. I know what they do, how they do it, and why.] Some people feel threatened, others vindicated by immigration. I'm saying that the problem will not be solved by blaming all our ills on illegal immigration (I'll say the same to the opposite view point, that immigration ain't a cure). The problem is the leftist politics which enable it. Their opposite extreme is just as shortsighted.
The greatest fallacy at work on both sides of the matter is the assumption that what is today will be, also, tommorrow. America is the most dynamic, invigorated culture and politic in history. Re-read AustinTparty's no. 178. Take a long breath, relax, and read it with reason, not emotion. If that doesn't help you, go read de Tocqueville's Democracy in America. He wrote the book before massive immigration, but he understood what it would mean. And why.
If you want to stop immigration, the only way will be to make America a crappy place to live. You'll say that illegal immigrants are doing just that. Well, by that logic the problem will fix itself, so who's upset?
Defeatist attitudes lead to defeat. What the anti-immigrant agitators need most is a dose of happy juice. The hysterical rhetoric smells of leftist whining, and tastes just as bad.
If the sky's gonna fall, it's gonna fall on me without my umbrella.
Or have Mexicans make their own place decent ---which they might if we weren't an every growing safety valve so the corrupt elites can continue on as they do. The answer to Mexico and all of Central and South America's problems isn't to have every last of their citizens move here. At some point we have to realize that a handful of countries can't be the only places in the world with a decent lifestyle. It's time instead for our government to tell Mexico to straighten up it's act. Really there is no good reason prosperity ends at the Rio Grande.
You'll find most people on these threads are not anti-immigration, but against illegal immigration. I used to work with many illegal aliens, some lived in my apartment complex in Arizona. Most of them were not threatening in any way, and in fact were hard workers.
The point you're missing is either we're a nation of laws or we're not. We take in almost 1 million legally a year, some of them are in my area, mostly from Europe, but it does explain why we don't have a need for illegal immigration. 9/11 should have taught us we must know who's coming in and out, and it has to be kept orderly. Personally I don't even see how this issue is debatable.
And I agree with that part on legal entries because we see a lot of that here. Near where I live is a couple who came up from Chihuahua to "visit" and aunt, they were 15 and several months pregnant --but married in Chihuahua so the boy could come and stay also. They got a visitor pass so came right over the bridge through customs ---legally. The girl soon had the baby at the county hospital (free for them) and now they'll stay ---probably forever on food stamps, WIC, and welfare which is how they live now. They can't find work since there's no jobs here but they don't speak English or have many skills either which makes it harder. To me they are way worse on us than the occasional farm worker you might see around here (not too many farms here but loads of housing projects) who probably came over illegally.
Sounds like some things that were probably said to the patriots in 1770 something. You know, we have our money and our farms - why should we put that at risk just to free this country from Britain. So glad those people didn't think only of their own comfy situations and instead risk their fortunes, families and lives to free this country.
It also sounds like some of the speeches Jewish people made to each other when some were trying to point out there was a real threat out there and maybe something should be done. It is the refusal to see things as they are.
Many, many people, both native born and those who came legally and became citizens sacrificed their lives, limbs and fortunes so we could all live in the freedom we do. I think it is quite shameful that we have just handed that up without a fight, just so we could have our lawns mowed or make more money. EAch generation has a responsibility to care for this country and attempt to pass off a better nation than we received from our parents. Ours may be the generation that sold the country in exchange for mere money, or the egotistical idea that somehow we are more intellectual and love of country is just so 'unenlightened'.
Our present situation of illegal immigration has bestowed the rights of citizenship in this nation without price, burden, or sacrifice. I understand why citizenship has no meaning for many - I have always found it to be true that if you do not have to pay for something, you don't hold it dear. There are many of us who could have made a fortune working illegals when they began coming and right now. It is just not right and will never be right. Remember when Mama said, 'Just because everyone else was doing it , doesn't make it right.' As usual, Mama knew what she was saying.
My problem is it was your buddy Ben Ficklin that was hysterically race-baiting since day one.
"The Free Republic is the internet's premier "hate the mexicans" web site."
12 12/21/2002 12:33 PM Ben Ficklin
He evidently didn't even know that a 'Coyote' is a smuggler that smuggles humans.
"Tell me that the Fox/Coyote analogy qualifies for anything except the rhetoric of hate. If the shoe fits, wear it."
18 12/21/2002 1:13 PM Ben Fricklin
"...declining white birthrate and aging white population. All you knuckledraggers need to accept reality."
34 12/21/2002 4:33 PM Ben Ficklin
"A chicken processor who employed whites only would quickly go out of business."
76 12/21/2002 Ben Ficklin
"...the browning of America will continue. So if you, or anyone else, has a problem with mariachi music, lowriders, or spanish being spoken, I suggest you get some counceling and do what you can to get over it."
100 12/21/2002 11:39 PM Ben Ficklin
Ol' Ben Ficklin probably bit through his own tongue 6 times that day. He better invest in a drool-proof cover for his keyboard.
LOL!