Posted on 12/21/2002 8:57:28 AM PST by madfly
I have been surfing the many news pages for months, and all the headlines, for the most part on a daily basis, mention the "War" in the Middle East. It is either Iraq, bin Laden, Palestine, Saudi Arabia or the like. Many articles about America going to fight over in that part of the world - the pretext being that we are fighting "terrorism". © 2002 SierraTimes.com (unless otherwise noted) |
Obviously ---the difference isn't just what you imply ---the first families here in this area were Spaniards who unlike most didn't mind being far from Mexico City, most of these don't want to be part of Mexico the way it is now. A big batch came at the time of the Revolution and some of them are vehemently against what Mexico has now become ---it's interesting here to get reactions when you mention Pancho Villa's name because some hispanics here utterly despise him because he basically ran them out of Mexico. Otherwise immigration was mostly a trickle most of the time even though this close to the border. Assimilation works quite well when immigration is at lower levels but you might be surprised if you saw some of the colonias going up at how little assimilation there now is.
And I agree with that part on legal entries because we see a lot of that here. Near where I live is a couple who came up from Chihuahua to "visit" and aunt, they were 15 and several months pregnant --but married in Chihuahua so the boy could come and stay also. They got a visitor pass so came right over the bridge through customs ---legally. The girl soon had the baby at the county hospital (free for them) and now they'll stay ---probably forever on food stamps, WIC, and welfare which is how they live now. They can't find work since there's no jobs here but they don't speak English or have many skills either which makes it harder. To me they are way worse on us than the occasional farm worker you might see around here (not too many farms here but loads of housing projects) who probably came over illegally.
There has been several references on this thread to the high hispanic population in California prisons. Of course that is what one would expext given the hispanic population of California. On the other hand, if one were to examine the hispanic prison population in a state with a low hispanic population, the results would be very different. This is not how prison pop rates are measured.
If we go to the DOJ website we find a more accurate description of who is in prison. Thw white rate is 462 per 100,000. Hispanic is 1117 per 100,00. Black is 3535 per 100,000. So you see, when someone uses this California prison pop number, they are trying to manipulate you.
Another method of manipulation is found in reply #206 by B4Ranch when he asserts that since a particular crime of horror was committed by hispanics, then all hispanics are just as guilty. Of course the axillary to this is that there have many crimes of horrow committed by white people and since B4Ranch is a white person, he is as guilty as those that committed the crime.
Another method of manipulation is found in reply #67 where 4Freedom cuts and pastes some poll into the reply that deals with opinions regarding immigration. Now even though he declined to give any info on, or a link to the source of the poll, lets give him the benefit of the doubt and say that it is accurate. Even then, there is something missing from the poll.
Along with a long history of immigration, this country has a long history of public opinion regarding immigration. It makes no difference at which point in time you inquire, the response will always be: "the people who came here in earlier times were good folk, but the people coming today are purely scum". Were you to ask someone today about the people who came in 1900, the answer would be favorable. If you could ask someone in 1900 about those arriving in 1900, the answer would be negative.
And it makes no difference which ethnic group you ask. Ask a long estabished hispanic about today's hispanic arrival and the answer will be negative. Ask a Vietnamese boat person about today's Vietnamese arrival and the answer will be negative.
Of course we all know that how a poll question is framed will influence the answer. See this CATO Policy Report which is but one of many such reports on immigration.
BTW, I am not a libertarian although I sometimes lean that way.
Correction: Americans are those people who are citizens of the United States of America.
No one is manipulating me Ben, I make up my own mind on things. Illegal immigration is illegal because well, it's against the law. If you want to debate legal immigration... who we take in, how many, for what purpose, fine. But illegal immigration for me is not debatable, how can it be? I mean, what laws can I break and get away with?
Btw, please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you a police officer? I'm asking because there's a Ben on other forums who speaks like you and is one.
Sounds like some things that were probably said to the patriots in 1770 something. You know, we have our money and our farms - why should we put that at risk just to free this country from Britain. So glad those people didn't think only of their own comfy situations and instead risk their fortunes, families and lives to free this country.
It also sounds like some of the speeches Jewish people made to each other when some were trying to point out there was a real threat out there and maybe something should be done. It is the refusal to see things as they are.
Many, many people, both native born and those who came legally and became citizens sacrificed their lives, limbs and fortunes so we could all live in the freedom we do. I think it is quite shameful that we have just handed that up without a fight, just so we could have our lawns mowed or make more money. EAch generation has a responsibility to care for this country and attempt to pass off a better nation than we received from our parents. Ours may be the generation that sold the country in exchange for mere money, or the egotistical idea that somehow we are more intellectual and love of country is just so 'unenlightened'.
Our present situation of illegal immigration has bestowed the rights of citizenship in this nation without price, burden, or sacrifice. I understand why citizenship has no meaning for many - I have always found it to be true that if you do not have to pay for something, you don't hold it dear. There are many of us who could have made a fortune working illegals when they began coming and right now. It is just not right and will never be right. Remember when Mama said, 'Just because everyone else was doing it , doesn't make it right.' As usual, Mama knew what she was saying.
Now you and others may see this as wrong but it has always been that way and it will likely continue.
No doubt it will if we keep the borders wide open. That's why so many of us are on these threads, we want the government to close them and keep immigration legal.
Why do you have such a hard time with that?
I, also, want to know which laws we, as citizens, are not required to obey. We should know up front which laws we can break and not be penalized for so that we may plan accordingly.
And I never seem to get an answer from the open borders crowd whenever I ask it. They just call names and give us links to Cato Institute reports.
If we give up the rule of law in favor of coddling illegal immigrants, plenty of whom are using bogus documents to live here, work, and collect welfare then yes I too see it as the end of "our way of life".
That's how they do things south of the border you know.
With all due respect to red-breasted robins, would you call strangers trapsing into your living room uninvited "migration," OR an "invasion"??
The poll results are listed in my post #73 and the link is right there. All you have to do is click on the line that says Zogby Poll.
But hey, don't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of a good lie, race-baiter.
I think it keeps them from dealing with reality.
Rome, cira 300ish AD, as the Empire collapses: "could be, who knows". What an attitude! Way to go! That's the spirit that made Western Civilization great! (not!)
Why is it that the nay sayers always talk like a butcher coaxing a lamb to slaughter, or a euthanizer persuading a hospital patient to just give up and die. Methinks their intentions are less than honest, either that or they really have bought into the delusion that things today are like they always have been, and nothing has changed for the worse, ever. In which case, they are possibly one of the sheep, and not one of the butchers, not that that really matters to the rest of us.
Oh please, you're not about to tell me illegal aliens aren't using phony SSN's, green cards, and drivers licenses are you? I'm ready to see that link to the Cato Institute that confirms they're all doing everything on the up and up anytime now.
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