Really. Then how can you dispute the research that we have done all over the U.S. when smoking bans were forced upon bar/restaurants? Take time to read this:
Posted on 12/20/2002 10:10:51 AM PST by Behind Liberal Lines
SAVANNAH NY- A ban on smoking has snuffed the life out of their D&S Diner, Susan and Doug Devall say. The owners of the village's only diner, one of the few businesses on Main Street, say they will close for good Dec. 29. They blame Wayne County's no-smoking law, which passed in January.
We'd still be here, Doug Devall said, if the law hadn't passed.
The couple opened the diner in August 2000, after a string of businesses failed at the same location. Although the diner didn't turn a profit in its first year, the two expected to operate in the black the second year. Then the no-smoking law sent that goal go up in smoke. Nearby Cayuga County has no ban on smoking in restaurants, so the Devalls figure much of their business went to light up elsewhere. That took 30 percent of the customers right out of here, Doug Devall said.
Sales were down $3,000 in July 2002 compared to July 2001. Hardest hit were on Friday nights and Sunday mornings.
The couple had the option of converting an extra room into a smoking room, but the cost of installing ventilation, sealing doors and other measures was too much. Meanwhile, the two sympathized with their smoking customers and let them indulge under the counter, so to speak.
If it's not busy in here, I will let people smoke. I'm not going to lose my business, Susan Devall said soon after the law went into effect.
The decision to allow smoking or not should be left up to the individual business owner, Doug Devall said. Restaurant owners should be able to choose whether their establishment will be smoking or non-smoking.
The bottom line
Most of them are crying their eyes out because we're closing, but I can't keep robbing Peter to pay Paul, he said. The bottom line: He needs around $800 a day to survive, said the couple. It's the days when less than $100 comes in and then the propane truck pulls in and there's a $400 bill to pay, those are the days that hurt, he said.
This stuff is going to backfire on politicians, come back and bite them on the ass, Doug said, referring not only to the smoking laws but to the high taxes and other regulations that New York state imposes on small businesses. Workman's compensation, disability, unemployment, liability -- the cost of insurance is extremely high for a small business that employs two full-time and three part-time people.
Absolutely, said Sandy Brownell, when asked whether the new smoking laws have hurt many small restaurants like the D & S Diner.
Brownell is a saleswoman for Palmer Distributing, which is based in Newark. It's hard for them to make it in New York state because of the insurance regulations and the taxes as well, she said. I see it a lot, more than I wish to, she said about the closing.
Brownell is a smoker herself, and said whether she could light up or not weighed into her decision on where to eat.
Not just customers
It's the customers Susan will miss the most, especially the regulars. In a small place like this, though -- one of the few places for people to gather in Savannah -- most of the customers are regulars. In fact, several people sitting at the counter Thursday afternoon, after the lunch rush, had the look of regulars about them.
It's like art work for you, said Jackie Shurtleff, placing Leon Waldron's grilled ham and cheese sandwich in front of him.
Waldron comes to the diner at least once a day, usually to shoot the crap with all the guys in the morning and to pick on everyone.
So where will Waldron go after the new year?
Nowhere it seems.
I'm still coming here, they just don't know that yet, he said.
Tim Carmon, who works in Savannah and drops by at least three times a week for lunch, also hates to see them go.
Shurtleff is Sue's sister, as well as one of the diner's employees. She's worked at the diner since the day it opened.
Both of these facts make the closing an extremely emotional event for her as well as her sister. Upsetting was how she described the upcoming closing -- the simplicity of the words belied the complicated emotions felt.
Before he started working part-time at the diner, Randy Brown would come in with his father for lunch. Off duty Thursday afternoon, he sat at the counter eating what Jackie euphemistically called a concoction -- a Philly sandwich with extra cheese plus pickles, potato chips, and ketchup -- all on the sandwich, not on the side.
Brown has another part-time job at Pearl Technologies, but will miss the good atmosphere at the diner.
It's the environment that will be missed even more than the food. Mrs. Nobel, a Savannah resident whom Shurtleff described fondly as a fixture, has been coming to the diner morning and noon since it opened.
Nobel said the diner has the same friendly, pleasant extended family feeling as when Betty Kelly owned the building and operated a luncheonette there more than 20 years ago.
Nobel doesn't think there will be another business opening in the space anytime soon though -- a great loss for the village.
The diner will be sorely missed on Main Street, which has more empty storefronts than full ones. A couple of bars, a hair salon, a convenience store/gas station, the town hall. Given the limited amount of amenities and services available in this hamlet, most residents head to Seneca Falls or Auburn for basic necessities and entertainment.
This exodus will seemingly continue.
Future plans
There will be an auction in January, and then the Devalls will try to lease the space. Since they own the building, which has apartments upstairs, the couple's connection with the hamlet won't be totally severed.
Drink beer and raise hell, Doug said, when asked about his plans for the future. His contracting business will continue to take up most of his time.
But ultimately it's Sue, at the diner just about every day, who'll miss and be missed the most. Her husband joked his wife would be able to enjoy a stretch of being Suzy Homemaker.
Based on Sue's response to that suggestion, it doesn't seem likely.
Although the couple got smoked out of Savannah, figuratively speaking, Sue hasn't been totally burnt by the restaurant business. But she would consider something closer to home and in a higher traffic area, she said. In fact, with an eye on the future, the couple is tentatively keeping an eye on a place in Weedsport.
But the 29th is going to be pretty hard, Sue said.
Not true.
If the smokers didn';t smoke the poor guy would still be in business.
The law
THe courts disagree with your definition of private. As ussual, you all claim I don't know what the law is and call me a facist yet you have not one case to prove your views.
You folks asked me what my posistions were.
No, a market only works when everyone is acting in their own self interest.
Whatever.
Trust me. This guy din't get a business loan based on a business plan for a restaurant.
Link ?
And what is the basis of the law?
Doesn't make them right. Rulings are overturned every day. How many of Hitler's fascist policies were upheld by German courts. How many slave laws were upheld by US Courst? Jim Crow laws? Favorable court rulings do not make a position right.
But many patrons are still lighting up at bars that secretly accommodate their habit.
California Smokers Use Prohibition Tactics to Get Around Ban
That is the real impact of the smoking ban. So if you hear of anyone saying that the smoking ban in restaurants and bars does not hurt anybody, you can quote my figures, which are based on the official reports issued by the State Board of Equalization here in California.
As reported in Fox News:
California:
But many patrons are still lighting up at bars that secretly accommodate their habit.
"I think it's fair to say a lot of the bar owners have gone out of their way to avoid the law, to circumvent the law," said Christopher Arriola, assistant district attorney of Santa Clara County. "You do see some sort of what people might call Prohibition-era tactics."
While cops try to sniff out the worst offenders, in many cases they're butting up against organized opposition. Bartender phone trees warn each other of impending busts, powerful fans blow away tell-tale scents of "smokin' in the boys room" and tin cans double as ashtrays in case of an unexpected visit by police.
California Smokers Use Prohibition Tactics to Get Around Ban
Really. Then how can you dispute the research that we have done all over the U.S. when smoking bans were forced upon bar/restaurants? Take time to read this:
I heard they are going to ban your dirt bike next. Kicks up too much dust. The neighbors can't breath. Plus the noise is deafening.
Fox News
California Smokers Use Prohibition Tactics to Get Around Ban
Back when liquor was outlawed during this country's Prohibition movement, Americans found clever ways to dodge police and have a drink in secrecy and safety.
Today, booze is legal — but in California restaurants and bars, cigarettes aren't. Three years ago, voters passed a ban to protect employees from second-hand smoke.
But many patrons are still lighting up at bars that secretly accommodate their habit.
"I think it's fair to say a lot of the bar owners have gone out of their way to avoid the law, to circumvent the law," said Christopher Arriola, assistant district attorney of Santa Clara County. "You do see some sort of what people might call Prohibition-era tactics."
While cops try to sniff out the worst offenders, in many cases they're butting up against organized opposition. Bartender phone trees warn each other of impending busts, powerful fans blow away tell-tale scents of "smokin' in the boys room" and tin cans double as ashtrays in case of an unexpected visit by police.
Smoker Ian Hughes said that if someone in one of those bars spots a squad car driving by, he or she will alert those puffing away — and everyone will stub out their cigarettes before they can be discovered.
While some bars are making a surreptitious end-run around the ban, others are finding mixed success in the courts, using a little-known provision in the law that allows their customers to light up.
Last week, for instance, a southern California bar won exemption from the ban because it has fewer than five employees.
Some venues get around the ban by providing smoking-only rooms.
"It's an OSHA law, so basically we kick out the employees and you're OK," said Tim Dale, general manager of Le Colonial.
Police say it's not OK when some bars comply and others don't. But until the smoking ban goes the way of Prohibition, hoppers who smoke and bars that welcome them will continue to be a perfect match.
To you, laredo!!!
You've got to REAlLY HATE it in order for quitting to be easy. I have found that people who are 'forced' into quitting, can not. Most people who smoke really enjoy it. When you enjoy something, it's not easy to give it up. If I come to hate smoking, I will quit. So far, I haven't gotten to that point.
I would see very few restrictions, save maybe not next door to a high school, etc.
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