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I THINK THE SNIPERS ARE AL QAEDA
Various Cable Networks ^ | 11 October 2002 | Myself

Posted on 10/11/2002 1:40:39 PM PDT by LSUfan

I'm watching this sniper coverage on the cable networks and everyone is so sure that this is a nut of some sort: a gun nut, a military nut, a serial killer, etc.

But we have evidence to indicate that there is more than one. Two nuts? The President of the Marine Scout Sniper Assoc was just on MSNBC and said that he is sure that the shooter isn't alone because he doubts that anyone could stalk, lay-up, take the shot, egress and just drive off in his minivan.

So now they have all the wonderful psychological profilers on...including some 300 lb private detective...and they are all talking about this like these guys are deranged or disturbed. They all refer to "spree" killers and "serial" killers.

Excuse me, but I'd like to see the list of serial killing TEAMS in American history! And I'd like to learn more about the spree killers who take 10 shots, get 10 kills, including one within 50 yards of a state trooper in plain sight and then vanish without a trace.

These guys have training, motivation, and resources and they are operating as a team. The fact that they shot with the cop right there tells me they were totally confident. I believe they plan these like operations, script them, rehearse them, conduct recons and then execute them LIKE OPERATIONS.

Who does that sound like to you?

Why isn't the media even thinking about the Islamic terrorism angle?

Also: this sniper was taking a big chance with daylight attacks in an urban environment, including one with a cop in plain sight. That (to me) implies that he has area security and avenues of egress and methods of egress covered. That's a lot easier to do in a daylight urban scenario if you have a team, as opposed to a lone gunman.

The fact that these attacks occurred just as the tanker was blown up in Yemen also makes me suspicious. Not to mention the 1 year anniversary of Enduring Freedom.

Just talked to a close friend who is with a DC think tank and is also a retired Col. of Marines. He is tuned in to law enforcement in the DC area as well as he is also a director of a company that sells computer equipment designed for tactical and security use. He has personal and professional contacts with law enforcement in the DC area. Also, his wife was two blocks away from one of the shootings when it happened, and in fact when he heard that a woman in her 30s had been killed in that particular spot while vacuuming her vehicle, he was extremely worried, because that fit her description. He couldn't reach her by phone for a good 15 minutes.

In general: it should be remembered that the month of October was the month in which Sheikh Omar Abdel al-Rahman, OBL's favorite mullah, and a top OBL lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, were convicted in connection with the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Also, October was the month in which we started our assault on the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

These aren't some bad militia boys who got into some bad moonshine...these guys aren't shooting up the countryside. They're likely conducting recon, setting up their shots and bugging out to live to do it again. My friend tells me that terrorism is definitely on everyone's lips and minds and that the Feds have involved in this out the ying yang from the get go...BATF, FBI...even Secret Service because of the proximity to DC.

My buddy points out that Al Qaeda said specifically that it would target schools, so this might be the start of something.

GET THIS:

Two of the shots were HEAD SHOTS at a moving target at 150 meters. While a tourso shot at 150 meters is not a terribly hard shot for someone with training, a HEAD SHOT at 150 meters on a moving target would be a virtually impossible shot for a nut with no training. Next time you go to the gun show, take a look at the guy to your left and the guy to your right. Chances are, unless they grew up hunting or were in the military, you'd be pretty safe if they took a shot at you at 150yds while you were moving. Hint: Marines qualify out to the 500 yard line with the M16A2. That is what training will do. I qualified expert and am still an avid shooter today. I shoot a heavy barrel AR15A2 in 5.56mm and a National Match M1A in 7.62 NATO. I am NOT at all confident that I could get a head shot on a moving target at 150 meters. In fact...I would not even try. I would shoot center of mass. What all this indicates is a very highly trained shooter with good gear and most likely a spotter.

And GET THIS as well:

My buddy tells me that the FBI al Qaeda profilers have been predicting some sort of random attack as a contrast to 9-11. Something that sends the message: "no one anywhere is safe from us." al Qaeda has specifically said that they have the right to kill hundreds of thousands of "American children." This fits in with the critique of the al Qaeda training video that came out not long ago.

Here is another coincidence (?): In his Oct 4th column, Bill Gertz of the Washington Times said: "U.S. intelligence agencies received reports this week indicating Islamic terrorists have targeted American schools for attack, intelligence officials said. The reports indicate that the targeting includes plans to attack all levels of educational institutions in the United States, ranging from elementary schools to colleges and universities, said officials familiar with the reports." One of the victims was a 13 year old schoolboy.

Now REALLY GET THIS:

In the public release, law enforecemnt has not mentioned any race or ethnicity of the perps. But the unclassified bulletin that is being circulated by the Feds describes says that one of the local deputies got a description of two "Hispanics" but the feds think the guy just profiled them as Hispanics from law enforcement experience and that the two could easily be Middle Eastern. My buddy did not know if the deputy saw the perps himself or took a description from witnesses. The original vehicle was described as a white delivery van and today the suspect vehicle was a white Chevy Astro Van (but if these guys are pros like everyone thinks, neither vehicle will be showing up again).

A few more interesting insights from my friend:

The killer (or killers) must have felt secure in his surroundings. Most of the killings happened on or near busy main avenues during rush hour.

To say nothing of the fact that the region is crawling with law enforcement of every kind, being so close to the nation's capital.

Obviously it's someone who has murdered before or has been trained and conditioned to kill people. My buddy doubts many first-time killers, to say nothing of social outcasts or sickos, would have the nerve to kill with a single shot, then drive to another location within a half-hour, then kill again with another single shot.

Notably, all the areas of the killings are highly integrated racially. Had the killings been two miles west or south, they would have been in practically all-white or all-black neighborhoods, respectively, so a non-white/non-black killer (i.e., Middle Eastern) would not have been noticed in the areas in question.

Finally, the coincidental timing of these two incidents is another reason to suspect al Qaeda terrorism. Blow up a ship at the same time they're plinking away at innocent civilians...

If they haven't already done so, the cops and Feds need to bring in some guys from the Scout-Sniper School in Quantico to analyze this thing. Most law enforcement snipers don't think like the guys who did these horrible acts. And street cops certainly do not. The best way to get a sniper is with another sniper. The Marine snipers are the best in the world.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; copernicus2; sniper; terrorism
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To: Latina_Abogada
I also believe that some shots were missed and due to the distance, the noise was not even noticed or taken into account.

The "never misses" aspect is part of the mythology surrounding the guy. Everybody seems to assume the truth of it -- but there's absolutely no basis for the assumption!

If we toss in the idea that the guy has missed some shots, and the whole thing takes on a different aspect.

361 posted on 10/12/2002 1:34:22 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: LSUfan
Nice post - My feeling is that the investigators know this, but they don't want to freak out the public. I think it is quite possible that the elusive white truck may be driven into a nearby garage, or a large Tractor-trailer container and calmly driven from there.

I think this is a healthy way to explore various methods that they may be using. I agree with you that this is a team, and a organized, planned operation.
362 posted on 10/12/2002 2:19:34 PM PDT by M. Peach
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To: swarthyguy
I don't think he even noticed the cop.
363 posted on 10/12/2002 2:21:40 PM PDT by M. Peach
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To: Molly Pitcher
I'll bet Gertz lurks on FR!
364 posted on 10/12/2002 2:37:30 PM PDT by M. Peach
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To: alisasny
All were sexually motivated with the exception of men who were killed in order to get to their female victims.

365 posted on 10/12/2002 2:39:05 PM PDT by Brytani
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To: r9etb
Finally, there are instances of serial killer "teams", including a young guy and his girlfriend who in the '50s killed several people from long distance, using a rifle. Interesting point. But digging back to the '50s isn't impressive. If it's a team, the odds of it being serial are greatly reduced. It seems like a team to me. A lone killer would most likely have messed up by now with this kind of intensity.
366 posted on 10/12/2002 2:53:48 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: LSUfan
Might be AQ, but if so, would they be killing on the muslim holy day, Friday? Or might they excuse themselves from the holy day by saying allah told them to do this on the holy day? Or might they be doing it even on a Friday to throw the LEOs off?

I dunno.

367 posted on 10/12/2002 4:19:38 PM PDT by zeaal
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To: LSUfan
Obviously we all suspect a Muslim connection. But I keep thinking about the OKC bombing, where there was an apparent Muslim/Aryan Nation-type linkup.

368 posted on 10/12/2002 6:18:12 PM PDT by marron
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To: irish_lad
Agreed. Apologise for ripping into you.
369 posted on 10/12/2002 9:31:56 PM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: ladyinred
I believe this is why, it seems, white males are the dominant possibilities in the "no-emotion" attacks. It's easier "not to care" when you have less family to fall back on. As much as blacks have crime, there seems a strong emotion connected towards their victims, such as hate, anger, etc.
370 posted on 10/13/2002 6:13:22 AM PDT by Little Bush
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
And if I'm not mistaken, the only male-female killing team in the 50s was Caril Fugate and Charles STarkweather, and they didn't kill anyone at long range.
371 posted on 10/13/2002 6:21:04 AM PDT by Skywalk
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To: LSUfan
I readily agree that Marine S/S are the best in the world and, while I generally like your overall theory, one thing in particular makes me think that it's not Al Qaeda terrorists are not doing the shooting ... the Tarot card supposedly left behind at one scene. Two things about it ... as I understand it, no self-respecting Mooselem would touch or look at, or even write upon, a graven image of his God, let alone write on it in manner so to present himself as a God to others, even his infidel prey.

My best guess right now ... a team of "home grown" whack jobs, maybe even video gamers, out on a spree but not the type willing to die in hail of gunfire, or even go the suicide route like Harris and Kliebold, if their violent end becomes inevitable.

372 posted on 10/13/2002 10:42:33 AM PDT by RedsHunter
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To: aristeides; joyful1; Dave S; PoisedWoman; Grampa Dave
Please read this book. Sometimes i feel i'm the only one who's read it.

Aristeides, sorry for the wrong info. Here's the correct info.

David. D. Lowman -

MAGIC - The Untold Story of US intelligence and the evacuation of Japanese Residents from the West Coast in World War II.

Athena Press, UTAH. ISBN:-- 0960273611

Please ping others who might be interested in the subject matter.

Funny thing, Hoover was against the solution proposed by the military which was implemented by FDR.
373 posted on 10/13/2002 1:13:59 PM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: swarthyguy
Thanks, that book is available through Amazon.
374 posted on 10/13/2002 2:17:22 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: M. Peach
Apparently Gertz was on TV this a.m. making the foreign terrorist case pretty insistently.

Don't know if this was discussed here, tho , as I haven't caught up with today's threads...

375 posted on 10/13/2002 3:47:52 PM PDT by Molly Pitcher
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To: LSUfan
"Why isn't the media even thinking about the Islamic terrorism angle?"

They're thinking about it. The problem is that most states have allowed the insertion of "terrorist exclusion clauses" in their workers' comp. and liability insurance policies. So if someone names all this as "terrorism" the insurance companies don't have to cover the claims.

Carolyn

376 posted on 10/13/2002 3:54:04 PM PDT by CDHart
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To: belmont_mark
Some ammo to refute the conventional wisdom....

David. D. Lowman -

MAGIC - The Untold Story of US intelligence and the evacuation of Japanese Residents from the West Coast in World War II.

Athena Press, UTAH. ISBN:-- 0960273611
377 posted on 10/14/2002 5:04:06 PM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: CDHart
Wow! So now we have a huge institutional bias against considering terrorism in cases like this.

Thanks for the info. Any articles or info you can post and ping me on sometimes. If this issue generates some heat....

You sound like you're in the industry. So this applies to private insurance as well?
378 posted on 10/14/2002 5:06:07 PM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: Senator Goldwater
White Male Nutcase Thread
379 posted on 10/15/2002 7:19:50 AM PDT by Little Bush
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To: Little Bush
Eyewitnesses at Seven Corners describe the shooter as being of middle-eastern descent, which is an area of the world not known for its concentration of white males.

The Middle East, that is, not Seven Corners.

380 posted on 10/16/2002 7:37:00 AM PDT by Senator Goldwater
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