Posted on 09/24/2002 2:09:34 PM PDT by BlessingInDisguise
Colorado Libertarians amused and irritated at secret ‘spy file’ kept by Denver police
Colorado LP leaders say they are more amused than angry that a newly released Denver Police Department "spy file" describes the Libertarian Party as a "militia" type organization.
"A political party as a militia group? How ridiculous!" said John Berntson, State Chair of the Colorado LP. "Is this the quality of the law enforcement in Denver? Is Barney Fife running the shop?"
According to news reports, the Denver Police Department maintained files on approximately 3,200 Colorado citizens and 208 organizations from across the political spectrum.
The files, which were released to the public in early September, listed the Libertarian Party as a "Militia type organization, pro gun rights."
Former Colorado LP Publications Director Ari Armstrong said the analysis of the party as a militia-style group is flat out wrong.
"The Libertarian Party does not conduct or participate in military-style training," he noted. Instead, it runs candidates for public office, engages in political lobbying efforts, and "participates in peaceable demonstrations in support of individual rights.
"Why the Denver Police Department targeted for investigation the Libertarian Party for peaceably advocating the Bill of Rights remains a mystery," he said.
Overall, the revelation of a Libertarian Party police file was "not a surprise, but it's an outrage," said Armstrong. "Apparently, peaceably advocating the Bill of Rights warrants a police investigation."
The mischaracterization of the Libertarian Party's political nature does raise profound doubts about the intelligence of the Denver Police, said Berntson.
"The files themselves are laughable to the extent that they illustrate just how pathetically ill-informed the Denver P.D. is," he said. "They are also scary for the same reason.
"This is nothing more than government inefficiency and stupidity. This is Denver's tax dollars at their worst, and Denver's citizens should be appalled at their police."
The files became public knowledge this spring, and set off a firestorm of controversy throughout Colorado. Civil libertarians said the files were a worrisome invasion of privacy, similar to the surveillance files kept by former FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover.
In response, Denver Mayor Wellington E. Webb instructed the police department to destroy the files -- but only after giving copies to the individuals and organizations that had been monitored.
"It was very clear that something went wrong here," said Andrew Hudson, a spokesman for the mayor. "[Police] intelligence work is necessary, but has to be done right and in a way in which civil liberties aren't trampled."
Began in 1999, the spy files were in the form of a computer database. Records were kept on community activists, "social justice" organizations, and individuals who had attended political meetings and rallies.
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the Denver Police Department over the files.
The release of the files began in early September. About 300 people and representative of about 70 groups crowded into police headquarters to review their files.
Walter Schlomer, the Colorado LP's fundraising director, picked up a copy of the Libertarian Party's file on September 5.
"It's an outrage," said Schlomer. "In spite of no record of violence or illegal activity of any kind, the Denver P.D. felt it neessary to secretly spy on the LP and keep track of our activities."
In addition to describing the Libertarian Party as a "Militia type organization," and noting it was "pro gun rights," the brief file gave the LP a "Law Enforcement" classification. Police did not explain what that meant.
The file also listed the Libertarian Party's "AKA Name" as the "Denver Metro Libertarian Party," which is a local affiliate of the state LP. In a section labeled "Person Associations," five listings were blacked out.
"There are words and lines blacked out by what looks to be a black marker," said Schlomer. "These represent names in the first two lines and I'm not sure what in the next lines."
Responding to criticism about the files, the Denver Police Department acknowledged that some groups were improperly characterized as "criminal extremists." A police spokesman said untrained clerks mistakenly shoehorned every organization into the few options available in the software's limited menu.
The spokesman also said the department will continue to maintain "intelligence files" only on people who are suspected or convicted of criminal activity, and will have an outside consultant review the files for appropriateness.
Hence, my numerous postings to Roscoe's idiot comments.
Unfortunately, ignoring them does not seem to make them go away. This could be the basis for an argument that they are paid shills. Normal stubborn behavior would have acceded to reason before now.
As for the topic, with the passing of the (anti-)USA PATRIOT Act, look for more of this type of thing to be codified by local law enforcement. A clear violation of Constitutional provisions for government.
And I'm not going to defend what he said. I'm all for peaceful reform.
Regardless, the entire Denver LP should not end up on some blacklist for the words of this one man.
Good luck.
Does that mean I shouldn't pay heed to economists such as W. Williams, or M. Friedman? Sophister's are those, like the socialists at that black website that intend to deceive, their argument is false.
"ground of authority...a presumption in favour of any settled scheme of government against any untried project, that a nation has long existed and flourished under it."
Are the ideas and concepts of free will, Freedom and rights so foreign that they constitute a threat to the US Constitution. Are these what the U.S. scheme of Constitutional govmn't was intended to protect, or are these concepts part of an abstract design that poses a threat to some other principles protected. I don't find the libertarian idea of limiting free will to be a reconstruction of society. Socialism surely is a reconstruction, a reconstruction based on the sophister's abstract designs.
"Prescription is the most solid of all titles, not only to property, but, which is to secure that property, to government."
Yes, it is. There is no comment though on the details of that prescription.
I don't think they're paid. I think they really hate us and do it for fun.
The reason they hate us I think was best summed up in a quote from the movie "Easy Rider".
Nicholson: "They aren't scared of you. They're scared of what you represent-which is freedom."
Hopper: "Well what's wrong with being free? That's what everyone talks about!"
Nicholson: "Talking about being free and doing it are two different things. If you go around telling people that they aren't free, then they are liable to do a lot of killing and lynching to prove to you that they are free."
Hopper: "Well it don't make them running scared"
Nicholson: "No, it makes them dangerous."
(Note, in the interests of time, the actual words may slightly vary)
If gun rights advocates were to march in DC, as so many other advocacy groups have, what better tools to demonstrate with than the very arms they would deny us. This does not necessarily pre-suppose that such a march would turn in to an armed revolt. If anything, past experience should suffice to show that any hostilities would be promulgated by the government and not those protesting.
Do they advocate reconstructing "society upon abstract designs?"
I guess it is easier for me to think of them as being on some agencies payroll. That someone could hate individual freedom so much, without some private gain, doesn't seem to follow a comprehensible motive to me.
I agree with the rest of the senitments in you posting though. Scary. But true.
I would guess that is Sarah Brady's favorite John Adams quote, as it seems to encapsulate her version of what the 2nd Amendment means.
I thought the 2nd Amendment was the expression of a citizen's inalienable right to possess the means to resist and/or overthrow his government and it's laws, when they become to tyrannical.
Such a drastic move would only be called for as an effort of absolute last resort, only if people were literally being hauled off in cattle cars to concentration camps or Gulags, like the Warsaw Ghetto riots. And your chances of survival would probably be about the same.
I'd leave before it came to that.
That's funny, because the limpertarians also don't conduct or participate in elections either, so what do they do? Oh yeah, they did get 85 votes nationwide in 2000.
Voting for republicans and giving money to the NRA sure as hell have not had the desired effect! The GOA and the LP both have the right of it in regards to our 2A Rights.
Leave if you want. I'll stay and fight for what I have already shed my own blood to protect.
Yeah -- that's exactly the same reaction I had when I first saw the reports about Bill Clinton cheating and lying on the golf course. I can understand why someone would engage in this sort of mendacity for gain -- e.g. to stay in office and out of jail -- but that was just so pointless.
I can only conclude that Roscoe, like Clinton, is simply a creature of habit.
soph·is·try Pronunciation Key (s f -str )
n. pl. soph·is·tries
1. Plausible but fallacious argumentation.
2. A plausible but misleading or fallacious argument.
the question is changing the hearts and minds of our current generation of Americans.
True. Just look at how far propaganda and indoctrination has advanced socialism. It'll take a loooong time to undo that damage, or even slow it down.
I'm wondering if coercion and lack of freedom are innate traits of the human race, and we are but a statistical fluke.
Even a brief survey of history suggests so. Sad, but true.
No, but what they do advocate is certainly libertarian in scope. It's the socialists that intend the imposition of unnatural abstract design.
some men are tyrants, some men hate tyrants, and some men love tyrants.
look at geneocide, gun control, war, etc etc... we have learned nothing from the terrible tragedies of the 20th Century
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