Posted on 09/24/2002 2:09:34 PM PDT by BlessingInDisguise
Colorado Libertarians amused and irritated at secret ‘spy file’ kept by Denver police
Colorado LP leaders say they are more amused than angry that a newly released Denver Police Department "spy file" describes the Libertarian Party as a "militia" type organization.
"A political party as a militia group? How ridiculous!" said John Berntson, State Chair of the Colorado LP. "Is this the quality of the law enforcement in Denver? Is Barney Fife running the shop?"
According to news reports, the Denver Police Department maintained files on approximately 3,200 Colorado citizens and 208 organizations from across the political spectrum.
The files, which were released to the public in early September, listed the Libertarian Party as a "Militia type organization, pro gun rights."
Former Colorado LP Publications Director Ari Armstrong said the analysis of the party as a militia-style group is flat out wrong.
"The Libertarian Party does not conduct or participate in military-style training," he noted. Instead, it runs candidates for public office, engages in political lobbying efforts, and "participates in peaceable demonstrations in support of individual rights.
"Why the Denver Police Department targeted for investigation the Libertarian Party for peaceably advocating the Bill of Rights remains a mystery," he said.
Overall, the revelation of a Libertarian Party police file was "not a surprise, but it's an outrage," said Armstrong. "Apparently, peaceably advocating the Bill of Rights warrants a police investigation."
The mischaracterization of the Libertarian Party's political nature does raise profound doubts about the intelligence of the Denver Police, said Berntson.
"The files themselves are laughable to the extent that they illustrate just how pathetically ill-informed the Denver P.D. is," he said. "They are also scary for the same reason.
"This is nothing more than government inefficiency and stupidity. This is Denver's tax dollars at their worst, and Denver's citizens should be appalled at their police."
The files became public knowledge this spring, and set off a firestorm of controversy throughout Colorado. Civil libertarians said the files were a worrisome invasion of privacy, similar to the surveillance files kept by former FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover.
In response, Denver Mayor Wellington E. Webb instructed the police department to destroy the files -- but only after giving copies to the individuals and organizations that had been monitored.
"It was very clear that something went wrong here," said Andrew Hudson, a spokesman for the mayor. "[Police] intelligence work is necessary, but has to be done right and in a way in which civil liberties aren't trampled."
Began in 1999, the spy files were in the form of a computer database. Records were kept on community activists, "social justice" organizations, and individuals who had attended political meetings and rallies.
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the Denver Police Department over the files.
The release of the files began in early September. About 300 people and representative of about 70 groups crowded into police headquarters to review their files.
Walter Schlomer, the Colorado LP's fundraising director, picked up a copy of the Libertarian Party's file on September 5.
"It's an outrage," said Schlomer. "In spite of no record of violence or illegal activity of any kind, the Denver P.D. felt it neessary to secretly spy on the LP and keep track of our activities."
In addition to describing the Libertarian Party as a "Militia type organization," and noting it was "pro gun rights," the brief file gave the LP a "Law Enforcement" classification. Police did not explain what that meant.
The file also listed the Libertarian Party's "AKA Name" as the "Denver Metro Libertarian Party," which is a local affiliate of the state LP. In a section labeled "Person Associations," five listings were blacked out.
"There are words and lines blacked out by what looks to be a black marker," said Schlomer. "These represent names in the first two lines and I'm not sure what in the next lines."
Responding to criticism about the files, the Denver Police Department acknowledged that some groups were improperly characterized as "criminal extremists." A police spokesman said untrained clerks mistakenly shoehorned every organization into the few options available in the software's limited menu.
The spokesman also said the department will continue to maintain "intelligence files" only on people who are suspected or convicted of criminal activity, and will have an outside consultant review the files for appropriateness.
Good quote. We have representative forms of government in place. Rick Stanley and his ilk fantasize about imposing their will on the electorate through the force of a "2nd American Revolution Militia."
He openly validates the concerns of Denver's police department.
If I recall correctly, it was formed in 1974 by a group of disgruntled Republicans as a response to the passage wage and price controls supported by then president Nixon.
You played your "victim" card, it was trumped.
I was was right wasn't I. You just love all those gun laws on the books.
Stay in Kalifornia you miserable little man. You deserve each other.
I did, but maybe I was wrong to do so.
At least writing these silly files keeps the DPD off the streets and away from gassing football fans.
Good quote. The means by which we satisfy those wants is grounded in our support of and compliance to our established systems of law.
"It is agreed by those who have seriously considered the subject, that no individual has, of natural right, a separate property in an acre of land, for instance. By an universal law, indeed, whatever, whether fixed or movable, belongs to all men equally and in common, is the property for the moment of him who occupies it, but when he relinquishes the occupation, the property goes with it. Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society."
" --Thomas Jefferson
To which you replied:
You played your "victim" card, it was trumped.
Roscoe,
I mean no offense nor do I have any ulterior motive. Please answer my questions.
Perhaps this is the wrong thread, and so maybe it is off-topic, but that still does not excuse you from dodging my questions.
1. Would you feel FR would improve from the elimination of libertarian-leaning posts?
2. If so, what benefits would there be?
3. If not, why not?
4. If you support the removal of libertarians from FR, how should it be done?
5. Should the moderators wait until the abuse flag is called?
6. Or should the moderators be more pro-active, and remove an account for posting a libertarian position, such as an opinion critical of drug prohibition?
7. What about those people who aren't libertarians but support minor conservative politcal parties, such as the Constitution Party or the Reform Party? Should they be removed also?
8. If libertarians are in reality the traitorous enemies they are made out to be, why is the political party allowed to exist? Would you support state or federal laws outlawing the existance of the Libertarian Party?
You say that I am playing the "victim" card, but I am not. I am unequivocally not feeling sorry for myself, or trying to lay some sort of guilt trip. To the contrary, I am asking several very straightforward questions.
If Rick and his fellow nutjobs take up arms against the voters of Denver, he'll have plenty of time to draft petitions from his prison cell, assuming he survives the attempt.
I never called for that. Your attempt to play the victim is quintessentially "Libertarian."
Unrealistic might be a better description.
The poster is here as a disruptor. It has worked well for him. This thread is good example.
He and a few others have successfully changed this into yet another debate on the relative merits of libertarianism. And away from the subject matter. Mission accomplished.
Hard to imagine why Robinson allows it but has liberal disruptors banned post haste. A puzzlement.
To which you replied:
I never called for that. Your attempt to play the victim is quintessentially "Libertarian."
At the risk of sounding repetitive, that didn't answer the question.
Sometimes getting a straight answer out of someone is like pulling eye teeth.
To address the victim mentality point, I disagree. I am neither asking to be banned, nor trying to draw insults. All I am trying to do is get you to give a straightforward answer to an equally straightforward question. Though you may have never publically called for libertarians to be banned from FR does not mean that you believe doing so would harm FR.
I'll go find a better thread to post this on...
It answered the point.
I knew that would happen as soon as the thread started. It only took until post #3. When faced with uncomfortable facts, they distort, derail and namecall. Typical RAT tactics. Bubba would be proud of them.
Coals to Newcastle.
The United States government will be notified monthly, starting May 15, 2002, with a copy of the petition as a lawful redress of grievances from "We the People". Failure by the government to comply with the petition by July 4, 2003, may result in the activation of the "2nd American Revolution Militia," from the individual citizens of the "Million Gun March," to insure that the current U.S. government will comply with the boundaries outlines in the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution will be the authorizing documents for this action. Should this action become a necessity of the people of the United States of America, at the Million Gun March, we appeal to the United States Military and the various police agencies in attendance on that day, to join with your Constitutional brethren to insure the compliance of YOUR government.
Good quote.
Excellent quote, BTW.
All threads which contain the words libertarian or it's equivilent are disrupted systematically. With great success.
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