What is American Corporatism (or no, the Welfare state is not socialist)

Frontpage Magazine ^ | 9/13/2002 | Robert Locke

[Lizard_King]

Very interesting points, all of them. I will have to give them some serious thought. Thanks for the post.

[inquest]

The crucial premise that enters here is that the capitalist economy cannot be trusted to be self-regulating, as it previously had been.

What the Great Depression did was destroy a second kind of trust: that the economy would reliably deliver material goods without government intervention.

Anyone who is serious about getting rid of corporatism must explain how they are going to restore these two kinds of trust or persuade people to live without them.

Getting rid of "corporatism" as the author seems to have defined it, doesn't necessarily involve restoring the first kind of trust, at least not right away. Government regulation of commerce is not the same as government management of commerce, which seems to be the more pressing problem. As to the second kind, the way I'd begin to try to restore people's trust is to explain to them that the Depression was caused not by the free market, but by the inflationary policies of the feds, followed up by the havoc wrought upon the economy by many of FDR's hare-brained New Deal schemes. That should provide a start.

[Doug Loss]

I think the point he makes in the footnotes, that "corporatism" is a contemporary renaming of "fascism" (the economic system, not the buzzword for authoritarianism), is telling.

[traditionalist]

Yes, but he fails to point out that corporatism is but one element of fascism.

The I think that Bismark's Germany is a better historical comparable to our present system.

[Ohioan]

I was ready to pounce on this article, as having redefined National Socialism, until I came to the end, and saw that the writer has in effect tacitly admitted the point.

For the legal fallacies involved, I can cite no better source than The Constitution Of The United States. And for how to apply it, see A Constitutional Overview.

To rebut the economic fallacies involved, get hold of a copy of Ludwig Von Mises' classic Human Action, which specifically addresses all of the fallacious "isms" indicated. (For a brief rebuttal, see Economics & Common Sense.)

Basically, the writer has simply clothed the usual Socialist quackery in a few extra layers of rationalization. But Corporate quackery is no better than that advocated on behalf of any other special interest in the macro economy.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[Ohioan]

I neglected to pick up on the Welfare State aspect, earlier. See How The Welfare State Works!.

The appeal of the author's ideas will rapidly diminish for anyone who looks at the underbelly of their application. As I stated above, this is pure quackery.

William Flax

[AdamSelene235]

Excellent post. Its a nice summary of the Socialist base of our capitalist system.

Yep, we're free market capitalists alright. Well, except for our housing market. Oh, and the financial system. Oh and agriculture,education,scientific research,transportation,medicine,Social Security and basically anything else that matters.

[AdamSelene235]

bump

[Eastbound]

"As to the second kind, the way I'd begin to try to restore people's trust is to explain to them that the Depression was caused not by the free market, but by the inflationary policies of the feds, followed up by the havoc wrought upon the economy by many of FDR's hare-brained New Deal schemes."

I don't think the trust will ever be restored until we have stable money again. You are probably right about the cause of the Great Depression and FDR's management of it, but that was only an academic exercise. The 'WHY' of it needs to be understood, then the 'HOW' becomes obvious.

I submit: The Fed and the fedguv work hand in hand to periodically siphon the wealth and re-distribute some of it. Some even say the fedguv is only the enforcer of Fed policy and caretaker of the USA's labor pool and natural resources -- just one more of the Fed's assets scattered throughout the world.

All wealth and ownership flows to the Fed (or to whoever it represents) through loans that could never be paid, which were secured by natural resources or public and private wealth. The only thing left to mortgage these days is the LABOR and production of future generations, which the gummint is only too willing to do to pay for today's bureaucracies and socialistic programs.

(Sounds like a perpetual state of involuntary servitude to me, in violation of the 13th Amendment, albeit a higher class of servitude.)

We are being manipulated and it won't end unless we toss the debt and go back to money. The only losers will be those who have nothing invested to begin with -- those who deal in nothing but scraps of paper with I.O.U.'s imprinted on them. (IMO)

[headsonpikes]

Essentially, he has recapitulated James Burnham's thesis in 'The Managerial Revolution', including surrendering to this apparently inevitable regime.

I say 'Nuts'!

[pupdog]

Yep, we're free market capitalists alright. Well, except for our housing market. Oh, and the financial system. Oh and agriculture,education,scientific research, transportation, medicine, Social Security and basically anything else that matters.

Some weeks ago I posted here trying to make this very point. I was trying to say that in missing things like this and what Locke points out above, that conservatives basically wind up handing an issue to liberals. This give legitimacy to their "corporate America" tirades, which in turn, brings up the danger that people who haven't studied the issue will blame capitalism itself, when in fact the real problem they'll miss is that we just don't have enough capitalism.

For my efforts in this I was called a liberal and a disruptor.

I don't agree with everything I've ever read from Locke, but he is dead on point with this one. If we want to not lose public support for a free-market system, we need to be addressing this problem, and not let others twist this problem into an indictment of capitalism itself.

[LS]

All things in economics are relative, and again, you know that, don't you? You do realize that there is no such thing as a "pure" free market. So it is always a system of degrees---and we are FAR freer than any nation in the world, Switzerland and Ireland and CERTAINLY China, notwithstanding.

[AdamSelene235]

So it is always a system of degrees---and we are FAR freer than any nation in the world,

So why is Hong Kong the early adopter of my companies new technology? We've found it nearly impossible to bring a product to market in America without prostrating ourselves before Congress, FAA, IRS, FDA, etc. etc. Why is the fiscal burden of government 2X greater in America than in a police state?

Overall, we are one of the healthiest patients in the cancer ward. The world is pretty jacked up, so relative comparisons don't mean much. Lets start asking what is possible instead of comparing ourselves with others. That is the mark of a dynamic nation....Not, Gee, we're not nearly as Socialist as France.

[AdamSelene235]

I say 'Nuts'!

Given the guy was a Airborne Ranger, I've always doubted that these were his exact words.

Nevertheless, I too say, NUTS.

[AdamSelene235]

We haven't argued for days. Care to debunk this article?

[headsonpikes]

Now there's a slogan to stir your soul.....

"We're not nearly as Socialist as France."

[Southack]

"Yep, we're free market capitalists alright. Well, except for our housing market. Oh, and the financial system. Oh and agriculture,education,scientific research,transportation,medicine,Social Security and basically anything else that matters."

The U.S. has predominantly free markets. Software. Hardware. Firearms. Cell phones. Long distance. Used cars. New cars. Private aircraft. Auctions. Flea markets. Retail sales.

Over in Europe, the government limits stores to only two "Sales" events per year, and retail prices are regulated (discounts are an actual crime). Little complaints are heard from the EUros for such nonsense, of course.

In contrast, over here in the U.S., we've got whiners who use the government-led Internet to make their posts on FR, yet bash any and all government involvement no matter how trivial (and compared to Europe, government involvement over here IS trivial).

[headsonpikes]

"...government involvement over here IS trivial."

I agree...and all you whining losers out there should just remember...

"We're not nearly as Socialist as France."

Man, that's some slogan!

[tpaine]

To: headsonpikes
I say 'Nuts'!
Given the guy was a Airborne Ranger, I've always doubted that these were his exact words.
Nevertheless, I too say, NUTS.
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I don't 'get' your objections, guys. What exactly do you see as the authors agenda?