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No. I have no wish to trick any of you. The ongoing and virulent decline towards bitterness ... grudges carried from one thread to another ... name calling ... defections and assaults on good Patriots' integrity here lately got me to thinking what a site would look like if it was up and running during the Revolutionary War ... during a time when ALL of our futures were at stake, as they are now.

Would it be any different ... or would the same passions and conflicts prevail ... the same differences of opinion? What did they use instead of tin foil ... did they even need it?! What were the arguments ... how were they resolved, if they were?

We've the luxury of FreeRepublic to settle disputes ... or carry them on ... be active or not ... on a minute-by-minute basis. If these long ago Patriots had the same ... how would they have responded?!

I would ask ... if flames are in this thread's future, please direct them towards me ... otherwise...

Here's a start to a thread, begun well over 200 years ago, where everything old is new again ...

To: FreeMe

Oh yeah? Well the Battle of Cowpens was a JOKE! Generals Green and Morgan didn't win the battle. I don't care what anybody says. Washington doesn't know one end of a musket from the other... and Green and Morgan are no better. What idiots. Next thing you know, they'll be sending our guys to Guilford Court, for crying out loud.

WE NEED PEOPLE IN COMMAND WHO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!

Signed : arnold knows
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To: arnold knows

Thank you for finally saying what many of us is thinking. I, for one, am disappointed and disillusioned in our war tactics and leaders. I am tired of the in fighting and name-calling. Some people just can't see the wart on the end of their nose. That wart being Washington and all his land-grabbing cronies who are in this for political gain.

I begin to think People For A Free Country is a cult ... one I plan on leaving unless things begin to change around here.

Signed: George was my King
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To: Arnold knows; George was my King

Its apparent FreeMe has decided to ignore you both. But I can't. The Battle of Cowpens was brilliantly fought and led. Washington may not be perfect, but I have not seen anyone better. You armchair Generals overreach, I think ... and are doing nothing to help the cause.

Signed: LibertyLives
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To: LibertyLives

"But I have not seen anyone better" ... that must be the stupidest thing I have ever seen posted on PFAFC.

Queue tied too tight?! Just because you have not seen anybody better doesn't mean THERE ISN'T SOMEONE BETTER!

I swear, this sight has lost its focus. Just because we criticize Washington and his gang doesn't mean we want to remain tied to Britain. But is seems to me we are using a lot of folks who DON'T belong here ... Canadians ... Frenchmen come to mind ... to do the job your King Washington can't do himself ...

Signed: still in the woods
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To: arnold knows; George was my King; still in the woods

I really wish we could stop fighting amongst ourselves. I've noticed movement north. There are more important things to fight about.

Signed: BetsyR
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To: BetsyR

Oh shut up you. You're an egg shy of a pudding, as usual. And just looky here! We did battle at Guilford! And guess WHAT?! We LOST!

Ever wonder why there are stripes/bars on our new flag?! 'Tis a symbol! We went from one prison to another ... I really hope you Washington-worshippers are happy now.

Signed: rabble-rouser
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To: rabble-rouse

Hate to rain on your grog-filled parade ... we may have technically lost at Guilford Court, but it was a defining moment in the war. The British suffered losses not acceptable. Cornwallis in on the run.

Signed: KingGeorgeWearsBloomers
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To: KingGeorgeWearsBloomers

That's it. This site is obviously a bullhorn for weak-kneed Washington. I am done with it.

When the day dawns and you see we've done something so tactically dumb as to wage a battle in Yorktown ... or someplace just as difficult to prevail ... maybe you'll wake up.

I won't be there to see it though. I've better fields to plow.

Signed: only when it's my way
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To: ALL

I don't think their intent is to win. I think they only want more land. They are in cahoots with the King and are poisoning our soldiers and using tainted bandages. I have a reliable source, which told me of this.

Signed:everything everywhere is evil
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To: General Horatio Gates:

George Washington is a Mason. If that doesn't shed some candle light on the matter, what will? Liberty for common people? Hmmmph! Obviously, this ill-conceived revolution is nothing but a plot for a new world order.

Signed: Illuminnutti
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To: ordinary man:

What nut would position troops at Valley Forge ... in the WINTER ... right outside a British stronghold in Philadelphia? And you say Washington knows what he's doing?!” Training”.. Yeah, right ... drinking and conspiring, more like it. WAKE UP! The enemy is within!!! And why does he have to take his wife with him everywhere he goes ... does she spoon-feed him?!

Signed: red coats are coming
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To: LibertyLives:

And WHAT kind of General hires a German....von...von Stupid...that's it Von Stupid... to train and drill soldiers! The idea! Doesn’t he know the British are HIRING German mercenaries, for Pete's Sake? Sounds to me like Georgie General has a SPY in his camp!

Signed: a Tory Wannabe
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To: still in the woods:

And if I hear the King of Mount Vernon complain one more time about his soldiers not getting paid, I'm going to Puke!

Signed: Tax Tea!
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To: Tory Wannabe.

Worse than that, have you hear about the little Jamaican half-breed artillery officer he's got as an aide-de-camp? Somebody Hamilton? Why he lets that little bandy rooster of a man have any kind of command is beyond me...

Signed: Missing England
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To: Missing England:

Well, ME, you just reminded me of that Frenchie Georgie has warmed up to! Something verrrrry amiss there!

Signed: William Pitt
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To: Tax Tea!

You have a point. What did they do with that levy money we raised? We need a full accounting now, before things go any further. I just don't trust that Washington, he never smiles. The fighting should stop until we get some answers! I smell kickbacks.

Signed: Missing England
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To: William Pit

I’ve got to run. The soldiers that are quartered here need to check their mail. And I think they just killed our pig.

Signed: Missing England
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To: wigs is:

you’ve your facts wrong. We recaptured Stonypoint with General Washington personally leading the charge. End result ... very few Americans died ... over 60 Tories did and more than 500 Tories taken prisoner.

Signed: Stay the Course
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To: Stay the Course.

Sure ... confuse the issue. There's no talking to you ... nothing I can say will prove to you Washington is a lightweight ... maybe when we are all subjects to the King again ... and your Washington acts as his left hand ... you will finally believe what has been so obvious all along. Those who follow never lead.

Signed: I’m talking listen
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To: stay the course:

Stay, sometimes I tremble for our young country...I wake up to the mist clearing from the meadow...the old trees rising beyond up to Heaven, it seems. And I tremble and ache for the loss and sacrifice...And then I think of my dearest childhood friend, Abigail. She lives over on the coast now, married of course to another Friend. He will not fight, but instead build boats for the Cause. And my cousin, joined up with Washington at the start...5 years, it has been now! And my neighbor's sons....so strong and determined, proud...even after Guildford Courthouse.Some..some spirit moves among us.... Faith, stay the course....FAITH!

Signed: Angel in the Whirlwind
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To: Sweet Song Of Liberty

You are way off key here SSOL. How can you possibly minimalist or rationalize the resounding defeat at the Battle of Camden?! The "brilliant" General Horatio Gates and his troops crumbled like week-old cornbread.

I haven't seen anything that pathetic since the massacre of Jane McCrea.

Why don't you go back to the Tory Underground where you belong if you are going to be willing to swallow that twaddle?

Signed: manic-minuteman
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To: manic-minuteman

General Gates had 1400 Continentals and patriot troops from Virginia and North Carolina. He was still vastly outnumbered. Retreat was the only option.

I am of the notion that the problem points to our scouts. I don't think Gates had been given intelligent information to correctly formulate an attack.

To compare this to the torture/murder of Jane McCrea is beyond the pail.

Signed: NoLibertyNoLife
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To: NoLibertyNoLife

Come back to ground, man! A retreat is a defeat! My 10-year-old Nathan would have known better than to take on forces so much larger than his own.

Now I hear rumblings in Maryland that they are drafting an Articles of Confederation ... and get this ... each state is to remain sovereign! LOL! Like that will work ... Washington and Jefferson will be be payin' off their cronies with this one ... that's if any of us survive.

Signed: Brummell's jolly ghost
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To: Brummell's jolly ghost

If you and I had been on the Mayflower, I would have been sorely tempted to push you overboard.

Why not talk about all the battles we have won thus far?!

Signed: Queen Victoria Lacked Eyebrows
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To: Queen Victoria Lacked Eyebrows

Cease and desist with the taunting or you will be relegated to the stockade.

Signed: Shopkeeper
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Your thread strikes on something that has been crossing my mind lately, namely how Ye Olde Time Freepers would have reacted to, for example, the response by Washington to the Whiskey Rebellion.

THE WHISKEY REBELLION

"The single largest armed confrontation among American citizens between the Revolution and the Civil War"
Thomas Slaughter

THE OFFENSE

click photo for credit

In 1790, the new national government of the United States was attempting to establish itself. Because the government had assumed the debts incurred by the colonies during the Revolution the government was deep in debt. During the 1791 winter session of Congress both houses approved a bill that put an excise tax on all distilled spirits. United States Secretary of the Treasury, Alexander Hamilton, proposed the bill to help prevent the national debt from growing. Loud protests from all districts of the new nation soon followed. These protests were loudest in the western counties of Pennsylvania.

Acceptance of the excise tax varied with the scale of the production; large producers, who produced alcohol as a business venture, were more willing to accept the new tax. They could make an annual tax payment of six cents per gallon. A smaller producer, who only made whiskey occasionally, had to make payments throughout the year at a rate of about nine cents per gallon. Large producers could reduce the cost of the excise tax if they produced even larger quantities. Thus, the new tax gave the large producers a competitive advantage over small producers.

The smaller producers, who were generally in the western counties, had a very different perspective of the tax. To them the tax was abhorrent. The frontier farmers detested the excise because it was only payable in cash, something rare on the western frontier. Due to the great effort required to transport any product over the mountains back to the markets of the East, farmers felt it made much more sense to transport the distilled spirits of their grain rather than the raw grain itself.

THE REBELLION

click photo for credit

The Whiskey Rebellion took place throughout the western frontier. There was not one state south of New York whose western counties did not protest the new excise with some sort of violence. Probably the biggest concern about the excise tax was the revenues from it would support a national government the western people felt was not representing them well. Their grievances involved resolving the Indian problems and opening the Mississippi River to navigation. "They were 'convinced that a tax upon liquors which are the common drink of a nation operates in proportion to the number and not to the wealth of the people, and of course is unjust in itself, and oppressive upon the poor.'" Without solving these problems the national government could expect no compliance to he excise law.

People in the West resisted the excise tax with different attitudes. Most simply refused to pay the tax while others rebelled with violence. Excise officers received most of the fury from the rebels. Each officer was to open an office in his county of operation. The easiest form of non-payment was to prevent the excise officer from establishing an office in the county. To do this, rebels threatened anyone who offered to house the excise office. More often than not, the excise officer received threats to his well being. These threats were usually enough to discourage the officer from staying and trying to collect the tax. When an officer was brave enough to stay, the residents who opposed the tax committed such humiliations as tarring, feathering, and torturing the offender. This usually convinced the excise officer to leave the area.

WESTERN PENNSYLVANIA'S ROLE

"Western Pennsylvania was 'a center of terrorism under the guiding hand of Albert Gallatin.' "
Robert Hendrickson

The residents of western Pennsylvania played a major role in the "Whiskey Rebellion." It was the violent reaction of the people in this area that compelled President George Washington to call 12,950 militia men to suppress the rebellion in 1794. The residents of western Pennsylvania not only threatened the excise tax collectors, they proceeded to carry out their threats. An angry mob marched on collector John Neville's house in Washington County, had a shoot out with him and his slaves, and eventually burned his home. Fortunately, Neville narrowly escaped the grasp of the crowd. Not only did this mob attack the tax collector but they also stole the mail from a post rider leaving Pittsburgh. The logic behind this action was to discover who in the local area opposed the rebels. This was a federal offense for which the rebels could be prosecuted. Their actions of civil disobedience should not be considered as totally without justification.
ALBERT GALLATIN'S ROLE

Since the people of western Pennsylvania felt they were not being well represented by Congress they decided to choose their own assembly. Each county was to choose between three and five representatives. These people were to bring the demands of their county to the assembly. Many of the representatives had ill feelings toward the national government. These people tried to push the residents of western Pennsylvania toward open insurrection. Men such as Hugh Henry Brackenridge and Albert Gallatin were the moderating force at these meetings and prevented the radicals from dominating the proceedings. Albert Gallatin's role was as a representative of the residents of Fayette County. As such he had to transmit the sentiment of the meetings even though he may have disagreed. Gallatin served as secretary and also delivered speeches that helped to pacify those radicals who were at the meetings. Often Gallatin delivered these speeches while radicals were in the crowd with their weapons in hand. Gallatin spoke about the mistake of open rebellion toward the government.

Unfortunately for Gallatin, the government officials did not differentiate between the moderates and the radicals who took part in these meetings. Participation brought guilt as far as those in the government were concerned. In 1794 the militia called by Washington marched to dispel the rebels in western pennsylvania. They also brought a list of names of participants that certain members of the Presidential staff wanted arrested. This list included Brackenridge and Gallatin. Twenty rebels were arrested. Fortunately, Albert Gallatin was not among them. Of the twenty rebels arrested, none were found guilty. The fact that he was included on the list of rebels caused Albert Gallatin in later reflections to call his participation in the Whiskey Rebellion his "only political sin."

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Would there have been endless propaganda streams trashing Washington as a statist? Would we have endless articles from Ye Olde Lew Rockwell demanding the abolition of the fledgling government?

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