Conservatives Angered By Environmental Provision

THE WASHINGTON TIMES ^ | June 18, 2002 | Audrey Hudson and Amy Fagan

[AAABEST]

The provision gives a 25 percent discount on capital-gains tax to private property owners who sell their land to environmental groups or the government, instead of to other private parties.

Sen. Phil Gramm, Texas Republican, called the environmental tax break a "dangerous concept" that "favors conservationists over churches, schools and orphanages."

[cake_crumb]

Tax breaks for the eco-wackos. This we do not need.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

"Now, the Everglades restoration will go forward because Florida is going to need the water."

That is a total falsehood. None of the restoration process is designed for the providing of drinking water, etc. This has nothing to do with the "water". It is an engineering attempt to restore a part of the Everglades that has not existed in some areas for centuries. The Everglades is like an ocean and it ebbs and flows. The problem is not that. The problem is government and do-gooder meddling attempting to regulate it's flow and redesign it for their own needs (i.e., property control, growth management, socialism). If they win in South Florida there is NOTHING stopping them from clearing the coastlines of Florida. NOTHING stopping them from taking farm or ranch land away to restore the "grasslands" (the latest tact of the anti-meat vegicommie crowd). Ben, if you don't live here, don't try to get into the arguement. It's a devasting project down here. There have been NO legitimate enviromental impact studies because they can not determine the results of their redesign of the Glades then a hurricane or two overfilling it. They could actually re-introduce flooding into cities that have not seen that problem since the 20's! AAA is correct. This is a property rights issues in black and white. There is no middle ground.

[cake_crumb]

"For those that want to bad-mouth Bush for offering a discount on the Capital Gains Tax for transaction such as this, remember that the liberals said it was nothing more than an attempt to eventually cut the Capital Gains Tax on ALL real estate sales."

Good point. The left is not above playing games with conservatives, in an attempt to divide us. Sadly, we usually fall for it.

I have to go and read this bill, to see what it actually says.

[Carry_Okie]

I will never ever object to anyone purchasing land on the free market system.

We don't have one. Property values are so distorted by regulatory costs that legitimate land uses are nearly totally valueless (such as private parks, management services for wildlife, open space, refuge in time of disaster, etc.). My book proposes a system to restore those uses to the property owner so that economic choices objectively reflect environmental considerations in the free market.

[Ben Ficklin]

What about all the federal money your state got out of the Everglades restoration because your delegation was in the position of "gate-keeper"?

Oh, thats different?

[Nuke'm Glowing]

LOL, then we agree. My issue is once again, like ours, that with government intereference. When it used to be land management, I had no problem. The idea of the government preventing a splotch of land from becoming a toxic waste dump two blocks from a playground is just common sense. Now though, it has gone way past that. It is as you say, destroying the ecological balance by creating new ecosystems, regardless of the environmental impact, for the sake of creating those new ecosystems only.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

" What about all the federal money your state got out of the Everglades restoration because your delegation was in the position of "gate-keeper"?

Note your own words:

"your state".

Even though the "state" has no expertise in managing any ecosystem as they have been screwing up the Everglades for over 90 years. What makes anyone think that after 90 years of practice they are going to get it right now?????????? All money that goes to a state means that you subtract 20% for the bureaucrats to line their own pockets and pet projects and another 70% to be wasted. If you honestly believe that this money will do any good, then you must have an autographed copy of "Earth in the Balance" on your shelf.

[blackie]

Stop the attacks by our congresscritter's and the wacko, extreme left-wing, lunatic fringe, dirt worshipping Green Jihadist, enviro-nazis terrorist's, on our Freedoms !!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

Molon Labe !!

[cake_crumb]

"The damage being done to land in the name of environmental preservation is so enormous that we all have a stake in this outcome."

That's the crux. The PRESERVATIONISTS are destroying what WOULD be renewable natural resources when managed by common sense CONSERVATION.

[Ben Ficklin]

He lives in PA, not Florida, so the Everglades has nothing to do with that money.

As for the restoration, the way it stands now, it will be the Corp and the state with Interior providing oversight. Its very easy for you to sit back and snipe at those doing the work but the fact remains, Florida will double its population in 50 years, so somebody better do something.

Of course we will have to build numerous dams here and no doubt we will be able to get some federal money to assist, but it won't be anywhere near the amount or percentage that the welfare queens in Florida will be getting. But shoot, it is very important that AAA Best makes some big bucks on his bad investment.

[AAABEST]

. Now, the Everglades restoration will go forward because Florida is going to need the water. There will be drilling in the eastern Gulf because Florida will need the natural gas. The limestone will be mined because Florida will need the cement. Sure, your group may be able make minor changes at the expense of the taxpayers throughout the country, but hey, whats wrong with screwing the taxpayers elsewhere.

My "group" is all for drilling and mining, we're for property rights, remember? Can you try to create at least one factual post, just humor me.

You talk about screwing the tax payer yet you want the feds to use huge amounts of tax payer money for land grabs and to pay off left enviro interests. You make no sense whatsoever and you have been factually deficient on nearly every post you've made on this issue. Do you bother to inform yourself or do you just come around and start blurting stuff out.

"Florida is going to need the water" my ass. If you're talking about the water diversion tentacle of this "restoration" octopus it's nothing but a boon for condo developers on the east coast. They're ruining one area of the state to keep political interests in another happy.

If they cut the levels of flow in the Caloosahathee to what they propose in the link above, it would be an economic and evironmental disaster. The brackish water would backfeed into the estuaries and most everything except mangroves. Not to mention that the added flow of fresh water into the Florida Bay would wreak havoc.

So never mind your "water flow" propaganda. That's a huge load of crap.

[Valin]

Bump.

[Ben Ficklin]

Factually deficient? The one overiding fact is that 900 people move to Florida everyday. You are entitled to your opinions, but it is not likely they will carry much weight in Florida.

[Carry_Okie]

The idea of the government preventing a splotch of land from becoming a toxic waste dump two blocks from a playground is just common sense.

Unfortunately, you are right; that IS the common sense. Most people don't understand that no one in a legitimate playground or toxic dump operation wants that kind of liability. There is a way to get individual operators to account for such considerations without police power or civic planning.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

Dams? With the NIMBYITE wanna be envirowhackos moving here? Do you know about the Kissimmee River disaster? It's quite simple. We will always have a problem because everyone who is an evnriogreenwhacko is a NIMBYite. They will say, yes we want water, but no, you can't build the desal plant in my county. Yes we want nature preserves, but no, you can't put it near my $300,000 home. Yes we want clean water, but no, we can't build that plant here. It's the ultimate in hypocrisy. The restoration is a joke. Like I said, they have screwed up their management for over 90 years. Why in God's name (ooops, I said that word the libs and 9th Circuit Court want banned) does anyone think the government will do any better with 8 dollars or 8 billion?????? This is the ultimate screw up magnified by the number of envirocommies and bureaucrats who will be involved. We might as well pave the whole damned thing because once you give money on this scale to a bucnh of morons and alleged do-gooders, you've written the prescription for an environmental disaster of biblical proportions. But go ahead, spout away. But you know I'm right. Government does not do many things right, but the things they do wrong, they do it on a scale unimagined.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

AAA give it up. You can't fight a liberal with facts. They run and hide behind the "Mother Earth" motto. I'm sick of this. This envirowhacko thing is creeping up the West Coast of the state also. As they begin to make their moves on a countywide or citywide basis, I'll post from the local papers.

[Black Agnes]

900 people/day? So Florida is building and encouraging intensive migration of people it KNOWS it doesn't have the resources for and is using those new people as an excuse to STEAL land/rights from people already there? Let me get this straight. You built your house without properly ascertaining whether you could support your needs for resources before you built. NOW you're using the power of government to steal those resources from others for you...right?

The 8B everglades scam is just that. The 'it's for the water we desperately need' argument is not factual. The everglades *never* worked by being flooded. The natives know that, environmentalists who've actually *lived* in the everglades for 40 years know that as well. There is *no* evidence that the water table in florida will be helped by flooding the everglades. This is an 8B make work scam by the COE and Wildlands project to reallocate property values around the everglades based on faulty science and serve as a nifty landgrab too!

[Nuke'm Glowing]

Bump to Black Agnes for hitting the hammer on the facts again. Ooops, there's that four letter word again:

F-A-C-T

I wonder how long until the left gets that word banned too...

[AuntB]

"I have to go and read this bill, to see what it actually says."

I'm with you.

[Ben Ficklin]

It would not be a good idea to imply that Florida is somehow neglectful when it comes to population growth. Essentially every state in the south and west will be experincing the samething. The problems in the lower Rio Grand Valley or El Paso are much worse than south Florida. If these people in FL new about Clintons '97 lawsuit against TX & NM trying to federalize the middle Rio Grande, they would have to admit that their problems are nothing compared to the number of farmers and amount of acreage threatened. The problem in FL is also not comparable to Darby or Klamath.

As for "flooding the Everglades to try to raise the water table", you must not have read about one of the major componants of the project. Aquifer Storage and Removal. In times when water is available, it is pumped into the aquifer and pumped out when water is not available. But those canals have to go so that the water can spread out and slow down. Otherwise it runs out to sea.

The Everglades Restoration is a water supply issue and not a property rights issue. It is no different from Dallas or San Antonio building new supply lake and a few of those that get flooded will be moaning about property rights when really all they want is more money. Many in Florida have already sold and were very pleased to get what they did.

Take the 8 1/2 Square Mile Area: These people bought land on the wrong side of the levy. They have always had water accumulation problems and the land was never worth much because of that. The cost of solving the pre-existing problems is much, much more than what it is worth. Why should the federal taxpayer pay to solve a pre-existing problem? Because the project will make it worse? I'll tell you why. Because once the very expensive solution is put in place, those land values will skyrocket.