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The risks of cohabitation
Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | 7/17/02 | Katherine Kersten

Posted on 07/17/2002 2:06:41 PM PDT by rhema

Edited on 04/13/2004 3:36:45 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Everyone knows that American family structure is changing. In recent decades, large increases in divorce and out-of-wedlock childbearing have dramatically altered the social landscape. But a related social change has received little attention. That's the extraordinary rise in cohabitation, in which an unmarried man and woman share a household as sexual partners.


(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: children; christianlist; cohabitation; divorce; family; marriage; morality; morals; sin
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To: APBaer
Hmmm... not such a good arguement. In many ways those two are made for each other. Just goes to show that perfect isn't always a good thing.
41 posted on 07/17/2002 3:50:59 PM PDT by discostu
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To: rhema
This is one of those issues I have changed my opinion on over the years. I used to be a big believer in marriage and family values. I would consider a man and woman living together without marriage, well, not sinful, but ill-advised. I figured that marriage strengthened the ties and made it harder for one partner to just get up and leave.

Well I have now changed my opinion completely. If a man can get away with just living with his woman, he ought to to it. Marriage should only be undertaken if the couple have lived together for a sufficient period of time that the man would would trust the woman in marriage - and even then, be very wary of the process.

Why? Because once a man and woman are married, the woman holds all the cards. The woman can utterly and totally destroy the man's life with no or little pretense. If children are produced, the man's life can be made a living hell with just one false and vengeful accusation of abuse.

And I say this as a relatively happy married guy! I have seen so many friends, co-workers and family members worked over by a vengeful spouse that I have lost my faith in our justice system to protect the rights of a man wrongfully accused by a vengeful spouse of unspeakable acts. My advice to my fellow men is to avoid marriage if possible.

42 posted on 07/17/2002 3:52:36 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: nanny
even if she does remain unmarried until she is 60. Is it better for her to have a succession of failed 'cohabitations'?

tis better to have loved and lost...No?

43 posted on 07/17/2002 3:53:43 PM PDT by laredo44
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To: nanny
I've never seen people so bitter as the never-married old ladies in that church. Maybe if they'd taken some intiative and dated instead of sitting around waiting for a man to drop out of the sky...
44 posted on 07/17/2002 3:54:23 PM PDT by Lamont Cranston
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To: Rogle
Let's not forget the financial trap set for men. It's called divorce. If any guy has accumulated substantial assets before he gets married, those assets are at risk in a divorce. Would you trust any pre-nup agreement?

In the US, twice as many women file for divorce as men. Financially, women make out literally like bandits in a divorce. They get a whole bunch of money they never had to earn. They steal it, legally.

Ask any poor schmuck who got screwed in a divorce what marriage is all about.

Why is there a growing "marriage strike" among men in the US? It's simple - marriage is too risky - legally, financially and emptionally. Loose your kids, your rights, all of your assets and become a criminal without due process. It's a suckers game for fools. Men are finally wising up.

45 posted on 07/17/2002 3:55:11 PM PDT by glockmeister40
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To: discostu
"In many ways those two are made for each other"

Oh, I agree, and I doubt that the spiritual being that hatched it was of an angelic disposition.
46 posted on 07/17/2002 3:55:31 PM PDT by APBaer
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To: APBaer
But, to paraphrase, did God prepare a young woman (Miss Hillary) who would be a perfect mate for young Willie Clinton?

Seems incredible, doesn't it? But I will say that God makes vessels of honor and some vessels of dishonor. Pharoah was a vessel of dishonor, and was used by God none-the-less. Why can't our ex-prez be? As concerning their marriage, it may have been a match made in heaven. ;^)

47 posted on 07/17/2002 3:59:36 PM PDT by Sangamon Kid
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To: Sangamon Kid
Please read post #45 there is your answer. I have seen friends who have been drug through divorce court and triumphed up charges of abuse to keep them from their children and increase child support.
48 posted on 07/17/2002 4:00:50 PM PDT by Rogle
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To: Rogle
Please read post #45 there is your answer. I have seen friends who have been drug through divorce court and triumphed up charges of abuse to keep them from their children and increase child support.

Sorry, that's not the answer. Your advice to refrain from marriage because we can't deal with the symptoms of the real problem will only worsen our condition.

Men in America have stood up and shaken their fist at God and said, "No thanks, I'll do it my own way!!" That's the problem, and until the one who "was created in God's image" addresses it, our marriages, our families, our communities, and our country will continue to disintegrate.

49 posted on 07/17/2002 4:11:26 PM PDT by Sangamon Kid
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To: Skwidd
Try dating without having sex, you don't get so confused about behavioral problems.

Also, those only interested in Ses but not Committment split real fast!

50 posted on 07/17/2002 4:18:24 PM PDT by zerosix
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To: TightSqueeze
What issues: a man who demands sex on the first or second date is no catch?
51 posted on 07/17/2002 4:21:57 PM PDT by zerosix
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To: freeeee
i'm with you on that statement, even though i don't personally believe in co-habitation for religious reasons.

where's the part about taking a mate for granted because they are now locked in "for better or for worse?"

sometimes i think shacking up works in reverse because "partners" know that the other person can easily walk out the door with no cumbersome and costly divorce, so they're less likely to treat the other person like crap, simply because they can walk at a moment's notice.

whereas if you're married you know it's a pain in the butt to actually go through divorce proceedings, so you put up with (or dish out) more crap for a longer period of time; some married couples just put up with crap for decades just to keep married; i don't see the happiness in this.

i may be wrong on this one, but i've observed this situation many times.

52 posted on 07/17/2002 4:24:05 PM PDT by bandlength
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To: Skwidd
amen. i married TWO of those. . .
53 posted on 07/17/2002 4:26:27 PM PDT by bandlength
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To: SamAdams76
i disagree with you on the "woman holding all the cards." my first ex-hubbie pays a whopping $94 a month in child support (even though he has a PHD and REFUSES to get any other job than burger flipping until such time as my daughter turns 21; which is 6 mos. from now; he currently lives of his new wife who rakes in 100% disability AND has a lucrative business on the side.)

he NEVER bought a house nor a car during our marriage, so i didn't get any house or car. he left when my daughter was 2 weeks old because he decided he didn't want kids after all (3 years into the marriage). he has always worked low paying jobs to avoid paying any substantive child support.

2nd ex-hubbie has NEVER paid child support whatsoever and his son is soon to turn 15. he is a single man on welfare for the last 13 years. i ALWAYS had to support my family with little , actually NO help from daddykins, so, no, it doesn't always work in the woman's favor, and i'm living proof of that. i'll agree that many men have been shafted out there, and, having been shafted twice, i feel for them; however, it is much more difficult for a woman to make a living (given same educational level and background) than it is for a man. if a woman wants to earn over $22K a year in NY, she either has to have AT LEAST a 4 year degree (something i DON'T have), or be a stripper (something i would never stoop to).

54 posted on 07/17/2002 4:42:52 PM PDT by bandlength
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To: zerosix
a man who demands sex on the first or second date is no catch?

I never implied sex, a wee bit of a filthy mind have you? I will share, as one who dated many women in my life, I would never bother twice with girls who possessed overbearing families. Who needs it, there are too many fish in the sea if you get my drift, nod-nod-wink-wink.

Also, while I am at it, let me go on record stating I believe it to be the highest form of BS to think there is really only one perfect person for anyone out there. And to think people have accused me of having delusions because I used to smoke a little pot, least I didn’t believe in fairy tales. Really some of you folk make BS an art form.

55 posted on 07/17/2002 5:07:14 PM PDT by TightSqueeze
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To: Sangamon Kid
I respect your opinions on this subject and acknowledge that it is your right to raise your daughter as you see fit, but let me offer a different opinion to you. You may just be doing your child a disservice by taking the moral highground and "towing the party line" on life while not taking into account our own biology and how humans interact with each other in the real world. Let's face it, we all have issues with sexuality, intimacy, and relationships during the transition from adolescence to adulthood, and sometimes even after maturity. I did, you did, everyone in the forum did...anyone who says otherwise is dishonest. Your daughter may be into her mid to late 20s before she starts learning some of life's toughest lessons. She will be at such a disadvantage compared to the majority of people who don't hold pre-marital sex or co-habitation in such contempt...it may even ruin a good marriage or relationship in her future. Besides that, physical intimacy is a tremendously important part in any normal relationship and sometimes two people just don't click. Who wants to sign a 50 year lease on a car without test driving it at least once? Let me ask you this, when you and your daughter discuss sex, do you portray it as some kind of dirty necessity or do you describe it as an expression of love and affection between two people? The devil is always in the details.

As far as marriage goes, let me pose another question? Let's take two different couples for an example, neither couple with any children to legitimize. Both couples love, honor, and respect each other in a committed monogamous relationship. One couple has a piece of paper from the state that says they are married, one does not. Which pair is more favored by God? Does God care anymore for the couple endorsed by a local government?

The Bible is the word of God and I do believe in its message. That being said, it's purpose is not to sovle our problems but to resolve the conflict of human nature and God's direction.
56 posted on 07/17/2002 5:10:09 PM PDT by SandfleaCSC
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To: Skwidd
Besides, you don't buy a car without taking it for a test-drive.

Sounds like the opposite of the advice my Dad gave to my sister and me about NOT shacking up because many men had the attitude "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?"

Frankly I think our society would be a lot more civilized if girls learned how to keep their legs together and demanded better behavior from the men they choose!

57 posted on 07/17/2002 5:33:03 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: TightSqueeze
I will share, as one who dated many women in my life, I would never bother twice with girls who possessed overbearing families. Who needs it, there are too many fish in the sea if you get my drift, nod-nod-wink-wink.

And where have we seen this attitude manifested before...oh yeah, our beloved ex-POTUS. People are quick to badmouth Clinton for his sexual largesse, but he is really only a reflection of guys like you.

58 posted on 07/17/2002 5:41:30 PM PDT by Sangamon Kid
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To: bandlength
I rest my case.
59 posted on 07/17/2002 5:43:48 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: Lamont Cranston
Actually, I don't believe I know any never-married old ladies of 60, but have in the past and didn't feel they were all that bitter. Of course, I am very married (happily so for 42 years). You might think me a little bitter at times. Maybe it's just age or arthritis.

All joking aside, I see the problem faced by young people today. I truly feel sorry for them and do not know what exactly is the problem. Too much expectation? Not enough willingness to work on things? Looking for the wrong things in a spouse? I do not know - but I see it.

60 posted on 07/17/2002 5:47:15 PM PDT by nanny
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