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9TH CIRCUIT COURT: PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL
Fox News ^

Posted on 06/26/2002 11:25:21 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat

UNBELIEVABLE. BREAKING ON FOX: SF APPEALS COURT SAYS PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ENDORSES RELIGION, AND IS THEREBY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.


TOPICS: Announcements; Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Alaska; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Hawaii; US: Idaho; US: Montana; US: Nevada; US: Oregon; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: 9thcircuitcourt; michaeldobbs; pledgeofallegiance; unconstitutional
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To: Miss Marple
For the love of... he's going to make this an athiest crusade. I am so looking forward to hear what the President has to say about this.
761 posted on 06/26/2002 1:25:58 PM PDT by rintense
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To: Recovering_Democrat
This world is going to he!! in a handbasket.

I wish these people who have been given power to make decisions for us, would make the decisions that would be desired by the majority.

Maybe GOD will get mad at them for what they are pulling, and hit them with a lightening bolt.

762 posted on 06/26/2002 1:26:10 PM PDT by trussell
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To: CecilRhodesGhost
I'd say this is a good day for constitutionalists. Ya never know what issue catches on - it's usually something simplisitic but meaningful. The Beatles songs weren't songs of depth but made a point. Ah, I love the smell of shrinking stink'in communist in the morning.
763 posted on 06/26/2002 1:26:10 PM PDT by Digger
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To: PhiKapMom

No, by Bush X41

764 posted on 06/26/2002 1:26:12 PM PDT by deport
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To: CecilRhodesGhost
Calm down. The public schools don't get started again in America
till the fall

Sorry to disallude you Cecil, but they have year round school all over California.

765 posted on 06/26/2002 1:26:24 PM PDT by itsahoot
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To: On Alert
On, no one is stopping anyone from saying the pledge or saying "under God." The Court has just stopped the schools from "endorsing" it. What's wrong with that?


766 posted on 06/26/2002 1:26:32 PM PDT by Viva Le Dissention
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To: Britton J Wingfield
My oath is to the Constitution, and I need no other pledge.

Bump (not that this thread really needs it...)
767 posted on 06/26/2002 1:26:37 PM PDT by NeoCrusade
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Comment #768 Removed by Moderator

To: deport
Ferdinand F. Fernandez, Bush, 1989

Note that Fernandez dissented from the COurt's conclusion that the addition of the words "under God" were an establishment of religion.

769 posted on 06/26/2002 1:26:52 PM PDT by the bottle let me down
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To: CecilRhodesGhost
There are plenty of founding papers verifying our Judeo-Christian roots. Here's one:

The phrase "Founding Fathers" is a proper noun. It refers to a specific group of men, the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention. There were other important players not in attendance, like Jefferson, whose thinking deeply influenced the shaping of our nation. These 55 Founding Fathers, though, made up the core.

The denominational affiliations of these men were a matter of public record. Among the delegates were 28 Episcopalians, 8 Presbyterians, 7 Congregationalists, 2 Lutherans, 2 Dutch Reformed, 2 Methodists, 2 Roman Catholics, 1 unknown, and only 3 deists--Williamson, Wilson, and Franklin--this at a time when church membership entailed a sworn public confession of biblical faith.[1]

This is a revealing tally. It shows that the members of the Constitutional Convention, the most influential group of men shaping the political foundations of our nation, were almost all Christians, 51 of 55--a full 93%. Indeed, 70% were Calvinists (the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, and the Dutch Reformed), considered by some to be the most extreme and dogmatic form of Christianity.

Benjamin Franklin

Even Franklin the deist is equivocal. He was raised in a Puritan family and later adopted then abandoned deism. Though not an orthodox Christian, it was 81-year-old Franklin's emotional call to humble prayer on June 28, 1787, that was the turning point for a hopelessly stalled Convention. James Madison recorded the event in his collection of notes and debates from the Federal Convention. Franklin's appeal contained no less than four direct references to Scripture.

And have we forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance? I have lived, sir, a long time and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings that 'except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.[2]

Faith of our Fathers
770 posted on 06/26/2002 1:27:02 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Oh this is just too rich:

Minnesota state Constitution Preamble:

"We, the people of the state of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings and secure the same to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution."

I wonder how many state constitutions are now "unconstitutional"?

771 posted on 06/26/2002 1:27:02 PM PDT by rudypoot
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To: Dimensio
Well, your argument would be sound if atheism entailed considering materialism in that fashion, but it does not.

Sez you.

772 posted on 06/26/2002 1:27:04 PM PDT by Petronski
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To: On Alert
The "big deal" is that this is only one step in a rapid decline of our nation! It seems as though our fredoms TO practice religion are being attacked.
Not at all. Just the ability to have the government treat the religion of the ostensible majority in a preferential manner.

-Eric

773 posted on 06/26/2002 1:27:32 PM PDT by E Rocc
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To: Sir Gawain
I didn't think you were THAT dumb.

Obviously a MAJORITY of the electoral votes went for George W. Bush, which is the way this country operates, or did you forget?

774 posted on 06/26/2002 1:27:32 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Petronski
A -- without. Theism -- belief in the existence of a god or gods. Atheism -- without belief in the existence of a god or gods.

The definition does not include or imply materialism. Buddhism can be atheistic and it is hardly materialistic.
775 posted on 06/26/2002 1:28:24 PM PDT by Dimensio
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To: gdani
It was remanded back to lower court. No appeal. No supremes

Thanks for the good news. best, bb.

776 posted on 06/26/2002 1:28:29 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: mlo
"...The Constitution is the law of the land. The pledge has no legal standing as law. The court did not address the wording of the pledge in the abstract (which you would think by the irrational responses posted here), it addressed the case of an agent of the state reciting it in a public institution. ..."

Yes. Thank you.

Threads like this one calibrate me towards being careful about headlines vs. facts vs. reactionism.

777 posted on 06/26/2002 1:28:40 PM PDT by ez2muz
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To: 2Jedismom
One nation under God

ping.

778 posted on 06/26/2002 1:28:42 PM PDT by TxBec
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To: jwalsh07
Here's a quote from the article at FoxNews:

"Although students cannot be forced to participate in recitation of the pledge, the school district is nonetheless conveying a message of state endorsement of a religious belief when it requires public school teachers to recite, and lead the recitation of, the current form of the pledge," the court said.

Have I misread something? It looks like the court decided it's unconstitutional for a teacher to "lead" the students in the pledge.

779 posted on 06/26/2002 1:28:43 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes
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To: Howlin
OK .. here is a list Of Senator's phone Numbers

Senators of the 107th Congress & Phone #'s

780 posted on 06/26/2002 1:28:51 PM PDT by Mo1
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