Posted on 06/23/2002 10:25:55 AM PDT by redrock
"This is free ground. All the way from here to the Pacific Ocean. No man has to bow. No man born to royalty. Here we judge you by what you do, not by who your father was. Here you can be something. Here's a place to build a home. It isn't the land--there's always more land. It's the idea that we all have value, you and me, we're worth something more than the dirt. I never saw dirt I'd die for, but I'm not asking you to come join us and fight for dirt. What we're all fighting for, in the end, is each other."
What is it that you believe???
A real question....since so many times on this forum, and others, the Republican 'mantra' has become a simple one.
Defeat the Democrats..whatever the cost..the Democrats are the enemy...(sort of Orwellian in it's simplicity)..repeated time after time...and anyone who dares to ask questions of George Bush's policies and actions is loudly shouted down.
But here's a 'news flash' for ya.......It may be that the Democratic Senators...Representitives.....leaders ARE the enemy of maintaining a Constitutional Republic.
But...the average member of the Democratic Party...is not.
The average member of the Democratic Party is just brainwashed..(for want of a better word)...
Just like the average member of the Republican Party is in danger of becoming.
"This is a party, this Republican Party, a Party for free men, not for blind followers, and not for conformists. "
So..I'll ask my very simple questions once again......
And Republicans who wish to rant and rave about 'third party' this or that...go right ahead.
But George W. Bush barely won the last election.....
You NEED staunch conservatives ( nowadays I guess we would be considered 'radical'.....) to help re-elect him....and others of the party..
CONVINCE us.........that at a certain point you will be willing to fight for 'old time values'.....
CONVINCE us ...that you have not become slavish followers of GWB...in much the same way as some did with Clinton....that you will ask the 'hard questions' (and demand the answers).
CONVINCE us.......and you will not do so by the constant dismissal of our very real concerns.
CONVINCE us.......
-----------------
So where do we 'draw the line'????
Should we elect rapists or murderers...if they are members of the Republican Party..and could 'help retake the Senate'???
At what point do you say 'this far and no further'???
Must every single American 'prostitute' themselves in order for one political party (one which on CLOSE examination is no different than the other one) to 'control' government???
I have certain values and beliefs...based upon my Belief in God.
Should I just throw those Beliefs and Values away...and close my eyes....just so the Republicans can win???
The basis of this Nation is a hardcore belief that the values and ideals (sorry to use that word..ideals...seems that word anymore has the same effect on Republicans as a Cross does to evil) that founded this Nation are important....
And yet, WJC didn't give the UN more than one third of its dues....W gave them the wad the first two weeks in office. The REPS need to become Reps again if they want our support. We didn't leave them, they left us! And unless we send a LOUD and CLEAR message by ALL voting third, they'll never get it.
But wouldn't you have to give up freedom in order to make it so? I understand the analogy you are trying to point out. however, Yes I support anyone's choice, but not such choice that would hinder others choice, See what I mean? communism doesn't rule just the ones that embrace it, It rules the entire country. I'd be more of a help trying to place such a person in an already existing country other then to change the Free one we have.
Freedom can be real scary sometimes
I agree with that, and Freedom isn't "FREE" either. It took a lot of bloodshed for this country to be. I just have problems with people so willingly surrendering to the "easy life" as opposed to the "free life" thats all.
So I guess what im trying to say, YES they have the right to Vote for it, But they don't have the right to vote my freedom away at the same time. :)
True, Japedo.
Without a lever to move Republicans back to support of the Constitution,
Republicans will stay RINO's, too. Why shouldn't they?
They support liberal ideas, the media loves them, and they get elected.
The only lever I know is voting third party.
I will not vote Democrat, and I won't vote liberal Republican, either.
If Republican's want my vote, they'll have to support my issues.
" If we remove the right-wing from the Republican Party, Republicans will move further left, capture the conservative Democrats, and catch a second wind. The Party will continue to drift leftward, and the real conservatives won't win an election for another half-century. We must work within the party, and release the grip of the left. We will never win by diluting the conservative vote."
Well said.
Whatever excuse you want to use, diluting the conservative vote got Bill Clinton elected.
Now, go back and feel good about the choice you made, but don't try to shrug off the fact that the Reform Party got Clinton elected.
I'll help vote in a Rep House and Senate, but your argument isn't the case. The fact is that W has signed numerous pieces of trash and no one bent his arm to do it. In fact, most of us emailed and faxed and phoned to make sure he didn't.
Well said, Agree compleatly. Its time to vote out the RINOS or drive them to another party. I have had enough of the sell outs!
That's one thing I would never believe, that Luis Gonzalez gave up.
You're on the right thread today. It looks like a pretty good fight.
I don't understand why there's so much bitterness.
We all decried the blindness of the Democratic support of Clinton.
Why are we now expected to accept without question any action of our Republican leadership?
Can we blame Dana Carvey too? Bush Sr lost because of Bush Sr's own actions or lack of such just as Jimmy Carter and Geral Ford did. Taxes and a war he chose to fight but not to actually win an absolute final victory in handed him his own defeat. If the people had been happy with Bush Sr's preformance then Perot would have gotten Zilch votes. Unfortunately Clinton ran to the right of Bush and won. The Bushes are Ford/Rockerfeller Republicans a huge turn off to many including myself.
What about Bernie Sanders, then?
Bernie isn't the only socialist in Congress,
but he's openly socialist,
which to me is a synonym for communist.
eastern arizona is burning. 1500 homes and 300,000+ acres so far. As this fire is only a few days old it could be only halfway done now. Right now it is only wind that will determine whether the entire stand of forest at the mogollon rim will be destroyed.
It is the policy of both the republicans and the democrats to bow down before the radical environmentalists and thus for many years the people of the rural west have been denied the right to manage the land in their states in a common sense manner.
It is because of this foolishness on the part of the republicans and the democrats equally that this fire is what it is today. It is so ironic that such damage is done to the environment because we have exalted the environmentalists. It'll only be a moonscape for a couple of years, it'll be a good green forest in 10 years. But think of all the animals who died in this fire. The spotted owl's habitat has been severely damaged here. And every forest expert in the west says it's because we let the environmentalists dictate forest management policies rather than common sense and human experience.
The republicans and the democrats are obviously not loyal to the americans. Therefore, party loyalty on the part of the americans towards either of those two parties is an outmoded sentiment.
It follows that I strongly recommend that each party be outlawed in the interests of the american people. Never again should any group of citizens be allowed to band together to form a political party of any type. And most important, the name 'republican' and 'democrat' should be banned from the land forever.
Seriously, the party system is working against us today. Democrats are way too loyal to the dems, witness the clinton bigots during his presidency. The repubs have the same disease and each party is just locked in combat with the other and they don't care about america's interests. Each party is a fundraising machine that only cares about those who donate money and other powerful interests. It really is in our interest to pull the plug on the two parties.
People should make whatever decisions they have to make, but in the process, don't sherug off what the effect of those decisions will be.
Read Arch-Conservatives posts on this thread, including the quote I posted.
That's just the simple truth.
Third-party voters on the conservative side amounted to about 1.5% all told.
How long do you think that it will be before a third-party candidate gathers enough support to make a run at the White House?
Let's imagine, wildly imagine at that, that a third party can increase their votes 10% with every election.
2004--10% of conservatives vote third Party, Liberals win the WH.
2008--20% vote third party, Liberals win the White House.
2012--30% vote third Part, Liberals win the White House.
2016--The conservative vote is split 50-50, Liberals win the White House.
2020--60% vote third party, Liberals win the White House.
2024--70% vote third Party, Liberals win the White House.
2030--80% vote third party, Liberals win the White House.
2034--do you think that after all those years with Liberals in the White House, we'll still have free elections in 2034?
See what I mean?
I'll see if I can find something from your boy Simon.
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