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Saturday, June 22, 2002

Quote of the Day by ArGee

1 posted on 06/22/2002 12:22:41 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2
There were a lot of people on this forum clammoring for McVeigh's death last year.  I urged that we think long and hard before we kill one of the few people who knew the whole story, motivation, depth of involvement, major players and other inside details.  To no avail, McVeigh was executed.

Folks, McVeigh might have been duped into committing the OKC Bombing.  Whether duped or not, he certainly deserved exactly what he got.  But there are times, when in the interest of self-interest for the nation, men and women need to show restraint.  IMO we screwed up last year, BIG TIME.

At the time I suggested that Tim McVeigh might one day see things differently.  Little did I know that aound six months after his death this nation would be attacked in a manner exponentially worse than the attack on the OKC Federal Building.  McVeigh was involved in an attack against the FBI, BATF or other federal entities, and the building occupants.  I suspect he was so focused on the BATF or FBI that he was blinded to the children and others in the building.  Or perhaps he felt their deaths were warranted in exchange for those at Waco.  Frankly it's difficult to understand how he could have done what he did.  But I none the less feel that he would have seen the attacks on 09/11 differently.

I suspect McVeigh saw the OKC Bombing as an attack on federal agencies with colateral damage.  I don't think he would have seen the attack on the WTC and the Pentagon as mere attacks on federal agencies.  He would have likely seen them as attacks against the nation as a whole.  I have no way of knowing, but I suspect he might have been willing to loosen up with some information if he were appoached correctly after 09/11.  Terry Nichols hasn't.  Perhaps McVeigh wouldn't have either.  Or perhaps neither of them would if the feds didn't bother to ask them.  Somehow I doubt the feds are too anxious to have Nichols or anyone tie in the middle-east to OKC.  But then we have made sure that at least McVeigh will never be able to help us.

Now there is talk of middle-easterners being connected to the OKC bombing.  The John Gibson show on 06/20 presented a former CBS reporter's (Jayna Davis) report about the ME operatives that witnesses insist that they saw with McVeigh.  This was as emphatic a presentation as I have every seen with regard to middle-eastern involvement in the OKC bombing.  John Gibson ended his show with a resounding question that earily implied that the government's attempt at a cover-up may just be coming unraveled.  Here is that editorial by Gibson.  I appologize that I as unable to obtain the text from the interview of the reporter earlier in the program.  But I belive this editorial will display the impact it had on Gibson.
 

Thursday, June 20, 2002
By John Gibson

I think we're all convinced by now that George W. Bush has the cross hairs on Saddam Hussein.

And it's clear from the latest Fox News Opinion Dynamics poll that the American public supports action against Saddam by a huge, huge margin: 75 percent for — 14 percent against. In electoral politics that's a landslide.

But what do you think those numbers would be if it turns out reporter Jayna Davis is right? If the Iraqis were behind the Oklahoma City bombing, and Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols were in fact so called 'lilly whites' recruited to act as fronts for Muslim or Iraqi, or maybe even Iranian, terror against the U.S. heartland.

And what if it turns out that Tim McVeigh, as a matter of pride and profound embarrassment, would never admit, never let it be known that he was acting in concert with, or on behalf of an actual enemy of  the United States — Iraq — an enemy that he personally fought against?

Or what if he was so worried about the fate of his beloved sister if he ever confessed that John Doe No. 2 was in fact hussein alhussani, the Iraqi identified by Jayna Davis?

How much angrier would the American public be to learn that the horror of April '95 was in fact Iraqi terror, carried under the shroud of two disgruntled, ticked off at the feds over David Koresh, white guys?

How angry would the American public be if it turns out that the prosecution of McVeigh as the executive in charge of the Murrah bombing was in fact a diversion, so as to let the real perps slip away quietly to gloat about their death and destruction in the safety of their lairs in Baghdad and Tehran.

This is nightmare scenario stuff, and what's so scary about this bad dream is there is actual evidence underpinning the fear that it could be true.

Did we execute Tim McVeigh when there was evidence that might have mitigated his involvement in the plot?

Did we send McVeigh to his grave keeping the secret of John Doe No. 2, and the terrible secret of treason and the hand of Iraq in that bombing?

Were we so anxious to get a conviction in that case and give the families closure, that we didn't follow the leads that would have led to an invasion of Iraq years ago, the toppling of Saddam, and maybe — just maybe — the destruction of the terror network that later killed more than 3,000 in New York and Washington, DC?

These are provocative questions that deserve answers and luckily Terry Nichols is still breathing and is facing a state trial in Oklahoma.

Let's hope the prosecutors there get to the bottom of this once and for all.

That's My Word.
 

Davis presented a strong case regarding witnesses seeing middle-easterners with McVeign and Nichols.  For once a talking head did not treat a person offering up information like Davis' in a hostile manner.  Gibson asked questions that probed and developed the case Davis was trying to make, that there was clearly a middle-eastern involvement.

If that show pops up this weekend, I'll tape the segment I missed and air it.  I think that show was something every American should hear.

I'd like to think this show caught a few people's attention across America.

2 posted on 06/22/2002 1:14:02 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: JohnHuang2; mickie; honway; backhoe; glorygirl; MizSterious; carenot; Betty Jo; Uncle Bill; ...
I am glad Johnstons interview is getting the attention it deserves.

What is frustrating for Mike and me is that we and others have been writing and talking about the info in his interview for over 6 years and no one in the press or government officials until recently would take it seriously. I have written articles about the same info which I have been posting on FR for over two years and started going to COngress with it in 1997. The Senate Judicairy would not even listen to the PEntagon terrorsim advisor about all this when the advisor and I briefed the Judicairy and Intelligence committees legal counsels in 1997 and 1999.

I have also written extensively on FR about documents and witnesses that prove prior knowledge and forewarning by the FBI and USG and a coverup of this fact. I went to Senator Shelbys aide,William Dunke, on the Senate Intell COmmittee in early January 1999 and told him directly about the 22 affadavits of witnesses who saw McVeigh with seven ME men in OKC (seven is the same number of men Saddam Hussein alleged hired according to thre Saudi intell people).

Dunke told me to have Jyana Davis go to the OKC FBI and have them receive the evidence and let the FBI know that the Senate Intelliegence COmmittee would be watching whether or not the FBI would receive the info. FBI agent Dan Vogel recieved the evidence in a meeting with Davis and her husband and her attorney (this has been now widely reported in the press and in Nichols pretrial hearings)in late January 1999 after they received my instructions from Dunke. In my opinion the FBI already knew most of what was turned over to to VOgel in January and February 1999 by Davis and her attorney.

Nelson also told me he , Nelson, also saw another ME looking man fleeing in a vehicle in front of the Murrah building at a high rate of speed one minute before the bombing.

The story of Cannistraro being told by Saudi intelligence (Prince Turki Faisal) about the Iraqi hit on the Murrah building (with the help of seven Pakistanis?) was in David Hoffman's book, the Politics of Terror, in OK State legislator Charles Key's bomb report, in William Jasper articles in the New AMerican, in Stephen Jones book, "Others Unknown", and in my articles on FR.

I have reported this month in several replies on FR about Khalid Mohammed, the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks having a possible connection to the OKC bombing via the Phillipines, Ramsy Youseff and Nichols. I reported this when the FBI and DOJ named Mohammed as the mastermind in a NYTImes article by James Risen. Last year the secretary (Sharon Twilley) of the man (Samir Khalil)who employed two ME suspects (Abraham Ahmad and Al Hussaini) in the OKC bombing identified a picture of Mohammed as the man she had paid three times for her employer(Khalil) in OKC in 1995. I gave all the info in this paragraph about Mohammed plus more to Mike Johnston and the Senate Intelligence Committee (Senator Shelby) last weeek.

I reported in an article on FR that Nichols was with a ME John Doe and a Rider truck in Newkirk OK on APril 18, 1995 the day before the OKC bombing. This has been known to the FBI since late APril 1995.

There were two ME males (likely Ahmad and Hussain) fleeing from in front of the Murrah building in a late model Chevy pickup truck(FBI APB on this). These mem were seen running and jumping into the truck by a witness interviewed live at the scene by KTOK radio reporter Cary Hulsey. The truck and its occupants were seen and identified speeding down the street by witness Kay Heron as she was crossing the street.

And there was a Mexican or ME looking man who crossed the street with McVeigh after they exited the Rider truck according to witness Rodney Johnson. McVeigh and the second man then drove off at a high rate of speed in McVeighs yellow Mercury Marquis down the ally behind the Journal Record building and across the street from the Murrah building according to witness Gary Brewer. This second Mexican or ME looking man may have also been riding in the Rider truck as McVeigh drove it up to and in front of the Murrah building.

8 posted on 06/22/2002 9:19:45 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: JohnHuang2
The FBI facility was targeted because, according to Johnston, it was the bureau's main counterintelligence operation at that time.

Any explanation for why the Murrah Building was first on the list?

12 posted on 06/22/2002 9:38:51 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: JohnHuang2
"The Saudi informant, who's part of the Saudi counter-terrorism service, told [federal officials] that he had seen the list and that 'first on the list was the federal building in Oklahoma City, Okla.'" Johnston continued.

13 Posts into this thread, and no one's said it yet:

What Did Bill Clinton Know, And When Did He Know It?!


16 posted on 06/22/2002 9:44:49 AM PDT by usconservative
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To: JohnHuang2
Saudi Arabian intelligence officials warned the FBI about an Iraqi plot to attack federal facilities in 1995, including the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City,...

Wasn't there a report that all of the FBI agents were gone from the Murrah Federal Building on that day?

If so now we know why. They were given a heads up.

18 posted on 06/22/2002 9:51:08 AM PDT by Spunky
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To: Mitchell; The Great Satan
Ping
24 posted on 06/22/2002 11:12:57 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: keri; Nogbad; Alamo-Girl; okie01; Shermy; My Identity; Ordinary_American
Ping. Sorry for any duplicates -- I've tried not to send this to people already on the thread.
31 posted on 06/22/2002 11:26:16 AM PDT by Mitchell
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To: JohnHuang2
Re: The Honorable Judge:

Matsch’s Court in Colorado was obviously especially selected by Attorney General Janet Reno and minions in the Justice Department.

From the beginning, Matsch made absolute sure that the whole truth of the Oklahoma City bombing would never get out. Judge Matsch severely limited the evidence that McVeigh’s defense team could present to the jury. When McVeigh’s lawyers early on complained that the FBI and prosecutors were withholding documentation, Matsch shut them up. When they attempted to demonstrate that other individuals—and federal law enforcement—may have been involved or had advance knowledge of the bombing, Matsch refused to allow it.

36 posted on 06/22/2002 11:59:35 AM PDT by lawdog
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To: JohnHuang2
Bump
37 posted on 06/22/2002 12:00:07 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: JohnHuang2
bump
44 posted on 06/22/2002 1:33:00 PM PDT by Nogbad
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To: JohnHuang2
There is no doubt in my mind that, by now, the Bush administration is fully aware of the implications of various Moslem groups in the OK booming and the Clinton cover-up of the facts. To me, it’s also obvious that the Bush WH is unwilling to press charges against Clinton for any of his treasonous actions.

So my recommendation is for Bush to issue a general pardon to both Clintons for a list of offenses. List each and every one of the offenses – there should be about 20 or 30 items on the list. This would clear the current WH from being apart of the cover-up and would place the blame where it belongs and at the same time, finally take care of the “Clinton Legacy” issue.

56 posted on 06/23/2002 8:50:29 AM PDT by Dale 1
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To: JohnHuang2
bttt. wow, excellent thread.
63 posted on 06/23/2002 1:30:05 PM PDT by Free Vulcan
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