Public smoking foes target the holdouts/MASS

The Boston Globe ^ | May 30, 2002 | Paul E. Kandarian

[SheLion]

On a state map on the Massachusetts Tobacco Control Program's Web site, a white splotch covers an ever-shrinking clot of communities south of Boston where smoking in public places is still allowed.

The spot - encompassing 14 towns and the city of Brockton - is circled by communities that have either full or partial bans on smoking in restaurants and bars.

[Squawk 8888]

once all the bars go non-smoking, you're going to staying home a lot.

Don't bet on it. It's unenforceable.

[I'm_With_Orwell]

And even there was no ashtray, that's still no reason to dump trash on someone else's lawn. Employees don't throw their lunch wrappers on the lawn when there's no trashcan.

I've seen more McDonald's wrappers lying around than just about any other garbage.

On your argument, everyone who eats McDonalds dumps their wrappers on the ground.

Did your company (or you, for that matter) ever try to identify which smokers are butting out on the lawn? Or are you just assuming that they all do it, in the same way I just assumed that all McDonalds eaters are litterers?

Blaming everyone for the actions of a few is called scapegoating, and should have no place in your argument.

I won't even get into the philosophical problems I have with non-smokers kicking smokers outside (away from their ashtrays) and still finding fault with them.

[I'm_With_Orwell]

My father and his ten siblings all smoke like chimneys. My dad is 72 and none of his siblings died younger than 70.

HAPPY 99th BIRTHDAY, MR BOB HOPE!!

His premature death (per the anti's: all smokers die prematurely) will, of course, be due to his smoking.

[altair]

In addition, smokers are absent more often and for longer periods of time, on average, than non-smokers.

BS. Barbra Streisand. There's not a shred of evidence supporting that statement.

[altair]

This is my biggest complaint about my smoking co-workers. What they do on their break is their business, but sheesh, what a disgusting mess they leave by the entranceway.

They don't have this problem where I work. Could it be due to the designated smoking rooms with ashtrays by any chance?

[altair]

''Studies that I've seen haven't indicated that it hurts business,'' she said, referring in particular to one released in September 2000 by the Roswell Park Cancer Institute in Buffalo, N.Y., that showed little adverse affect on restaurant revenues

Um, right.

and that only 10 percent of smokers surveyed opposed smoking bans.

Um, right. Somebody has been hitting the crack pipe too much.

[3catsanadog]

That's very true. I work an 8 hour shift on my feet and am busy from clock in to clock out. I get a half hour for lunch and 2 15 minute breaks. That's when I smoke and the non-smokers get those breaks also.

When I used to work in an office, when things got slow my body screamed for a smoke.

[3catsanadog]

I wish they'd ban tanning salons because it is well documented that sun causes cancer. (/sarcasm)

[3catsanadog]

I would be interested in helping you with your entrepreneurial venture. :)

[GopherIt]

Problem is it's not the "right" they claim, it's their invocation of the power of the State to enforce it.

[BansheeBill]

In Braintree (a town just South of Boston) they banned smoking in restaurants a few months back and the owners howled, and for about 6 weeks there were stories in the local paper about their business falling off and stories of restaurant owners (especially the ones with bars in them) coming to selectmen's meeting pleading for relief and saying they might have to go out of business, and stories of bartenders and waitreses making a LOT less money.
I did notice that a popular bar/restaurant I passed nearly every day seemed to have a lot less cars than usual in it, but now, a few months later, there are no stories in the paper about restaurant owners coming to the selectman's meetings with tales of woe, and you can barely get into the parking lot of that local restaurant every night, and a friend who's wife works as a waitress says business is back to what it was (or maybe better as the economy seems to be improving) and tips are good as ever. They serve good food at a good price and although there was a dip for nearly 2 months, it appears that it is over, and all the predictions of doom and gloom are not going to come true.

[JPJones]

Now I know why Barb got the 'ell out of MASS! Too many Brown Shirts marching in Mass with Jack Boots!

Git out while the gittin's good!

[A Ruckus of Dogs]

Blaming everyone for the actions of a few is called scapegoating, and should have no place in your argument

I'm not blaming everyone but it's not the non-smokers making the mess. Yes, some of the smokers use the ashtrays and some are slobs. No, I don't stick around to see which is which. This problem isn't excluusive to my company - it's pretty much everywhere.

I'm not trying to come off as rude here, and a lot of smokers probably think a butt or two thrown by the entranceway or out the car window is insignificant. But thousands of smokers doing the same thing leaves quite a mess along the streets and highways. The filters don't weather away and the stuff accumulates. There are more butts hanging around than paper wrappers or bags.

Please, be aware that people do notice the litter and it doesn't help the overall image of smokers.

[A Ruckus of Dogs]

They don't have this problem where I work. Could it be due to the designated smoking rooms with ashtrays by any chance?

There is an ashtray by the building entranceway, ergo, there is no excuse to throw the butts on the lawn. As far as smoking rooms with ashtrays go, people are just less likely to throw their litter on the floor than they are on the ground outside.

[jimt]

It is not an issue of rights. People should be able to seek work without having to pass up employment because they do not want to breath tobacco smoke.

Wrong ! You do not have the right to set the working conditions. The employer does. If you don't like them, work elsewhere. There is no statistically valid study showing any harm from second hand smoke.

I generally find that the number one issue about smoking in bars and restaurants is whether the owner/manager smokes. I have been restaurants with empty smoking sections but filled no smoking sections and people walking out because the manager is a smoker.

And any owner/manager who operates in such a manner will go out of business. I personally have seen the opposite, and many times have left a restaurant because the smoking section was full. In any case, it's a self-correcting problem, with no need for nico-nazis to stick their long noses into it.

In some states, business advertise the fact that they are smoke free. So, to claim it will hurt business is a very weak argument. Having a smelly, dirty establishment also hurts business.

Advertising "smoke free" is everyone's right. Whether an establishment allows smoking or not should be up to the owner, not some stupid soccer mom with more time and money than sense. And there are studies that have shown it hurts business. Moreover, it's a gross infringement of rights. The market should decide, not crusading pinheads.

[SheLion]

HAPPY 99th BIRTHDAY, MR BOB HOPE!!

Hey, thanks for this post and the great picture of Bob!

99 years old. Go figure.

[SheLion]

altair.....the anti's are using our cigarette tax dollars to dump on us all these wild propaganda articles.

And the general public believes it.

[SheLion]

As for hurting business's, there is a site on the web that shows how devestating the no smoke ban has hurt:

Bans Bad For Business

[Freedom4US]

Smoking is a dirty habit. A vice.

The fact remains, however -- either you believe in freedom, or you do not. There is no middle ground. If a business owner wishes to declare their place of business non-smoking, then by all means do so.

If a business owner, however, wants his patrons to smoke, and you do not like it, don't go there.

Why not let the market decide?

Go ahead, support blanket tobacco bans. Smile smugly when you look in the mirror. But never, ever forget -- You are Fascist, without question.

Don't waste your philosophical masturbatory jizz on those who are actually able to think for themselves, though. It ain't gonna work, we got your number already.