Question to homeschool advocates

[Thoeting]

I have a question to homeschool advocates.

I teach English to students with learning disabilities in a small (500 students) middle school. I work mostly with 6th graders. These are students who are 11-12 years old.

This September, we had 6 students enroll who were previously home-schooled. Each set is coming into the public school system for different reasons. In 2 families, the parents have split up and both parents must now work. The others either just wanted to try it, or were tired of home. or moved from a large city. Of the 6, 1 enrolled in the school's gifted/talented program. Of the others, all 5 are coming in with deplorable skills. 2 of them (siblings) are unable to recognize all letters of the alphabet, and are also quite weak in math. They can count to 100, and do 1 digit addition and subtraction. Of the other three, 1 cannot recognize cursive, 1 can spell nothing beyond four letters, and the last one reads at about a 2nd grade level.

Everyone one of the 5 that I work with have "iffy" social skills. None are comfortable around large groups, and 3 of them are actually afraid of the other kids. All of them prefer to be with the adults.

I work with these 5 in an English class. Because of their discomfort with large groups, I requested to have only these five for this year. I enjoy their personalities greatly and I am thrilled every day to watch them grow. However, even though they are of normal intelligence, it is likely, that most of them will not learn to read at a 6th grade level before leaving middle school, which means they will continue to be behind considerably into high school.

I know that there is a large homeschool contingent that read FreeRepublic and I would like to know if anyone here has seen a situation like this before. Is there anyone out there looking out for kids to make sure they are actually being instructed? At what point do homeschool parents start to get worried? Is there any type of agency that oversees homeschool parents? As I have conferenced with these parents over the course of the year, NONE were aware that there was a problem! Yet some of these children were up to 6 years behind.

Please don't take this as a slam against homeschooling. Obviously something went wrong in these situations, but I think (or at least hope!) that the majority work well.

[weikel]

"Education" majors have the lowest average SAT scores on average( and SAT correlates pretty well with IQ) of any major.

[everclear]

ooooh.... a typo.....better have child protective services raid the place.

[Khepera]

I also improperly used the contraction your instead of you're in a previous post. So what? You understood me and your still a waste of time.

[RightOnline]

My wife and I have been homeschoolers for over 18 years and have seven children. We homeschool them through eighth grade, and since we live in a terrific area with a very, very tough college-prep high school, they attend that public high school (although the oldest was homeschooled through ninth grade). Two are in college, two are in high school, the rest are still being homeschooled.

I think I can tell you exactly what you ran into here.

Homeschooling became "trendy" over the last six or seven years. What used to be highly unusual is now quite common.

The problem is that too many of these parents like the idea of homeschooling but they haven't the energy, commitment, sense of sacrifice, or requisite drive to really work. Example: one family I know......attempting to homeschool 3 of their five children (they gave up on the younger two since they're incorrigible, so they packed them off to public elementary school as soon as they could toss 'em on a bus). The mother's idea of homeschooling? She found a curriculum that is computer / Internet based and sits the kids in front of a computer all day (well, at least until they get bored). NO involvement on her part because, well, "gee, I'm just so disorganized, and I just seem to be so busy, and.......and........and.....".

Frankly, it's called "laziness".

Compound that with an unwillingness these days for "Mom" to stay at home and work with the kids. No, it's FAR easier for Mom to go get a job to support "lifestyle" more often than not, rather than "necessity". Oh, they may try it for a while but then realize that that mortgage is just too stiff or they'll have to give up restaurants 3 nights a week or lose that country club membership...........and then momma's back in an office, kids are shuffled off to "the system". Sound cynical? You see it every day, all around you. You have for years.

You can't just fall in love with the idea of homeschooling. It takes work and one hell of a lot of it.

I feel certain that you ran into some good kids who are saddled with LAZY parents who didn't do their homework, didn't prepare, didn't try to work with their kids...............finally threw up their hands and tossed them into the public school system saying "oh gee, that was too hard; YOU fix 'em".

I'll guarantee you that your opinion of homeschooled children would be VASTLY different if you met my kids.

[grania]

You are evaluating your homeschool students in terms of what your students know. In the for-profit learning center where I teach math, we often get (1) home school students whose parents are weak in some subject or are planning a transition to more formal education settings and/or standardized tests for admissions (2) students changing from one school environment to another and (3) Montessori students whose parents want to be sure their child is also on top of tradition curriculum content.

In each case, I evaluate what the student knows, what he/she does well, and what the learning style is. Then, I go through background remediation materials that are ungraded to fill in the spaces. And, when they are working on new material, I tie it to their previous learning styles and information and don't let them feel that they are in somehow lacking in information, just that they know different things from the other students. And, they should be encouraged to work with others and be helpful with those having difficulties with skills they have mastered.

The other thing to watch out for is that these students often don't learn best in the silly team/group environments that have permeated the classroom. These students often do well if you give them procedures, a few examples, and let them puzzle things out on their own...in a positive learning environment.

These students have an awful lot to offer to a classroom. Home-schooled are often less whiney and immature about doing things on their own. They usually have very good manners and are not dependent on fitting in. So, enjoy this opportunity to teach and learn from students who have differnent things to offer in the classroom!

[RightOnline]

"The problem we keep wrestling with is socialization."

See my reply immediately above. Now, let's address the ever-present "socialization" issue.

First, read everything I wrote above. Still applies.

As far as our kids are concerned, I'll tell you that this was our biggest concern before we started homeschooling as well.

As it turned out, that has been the LEAST of our concerns in reality.

Kids attract kids. Now, we have a bunch of 'em. You don't. We have kids in the area. You say you don't (but you probably have more kids in your neighborhood than you sometimes realize). That aside, there are churches.......church youth groups. There's Scouting: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Camp Fire Girls, etc. There's the YMCA. There are youth sports leagues. You get the idea. There are DOZENS of ways for kids to be with other kids.

In addition, my kids are very comfortable being with adults because, via homeschooling, they've had tremendous 1-on-1 time with an adult. They are used to talking to adults. They aren't shy, they show respect, and are at ease with themselves, their peers, and adults.

Don't fall into a trap that's laid out here by many who haven't the slightest clue what they're talking about. I DO know what I'm talking about on this one. They wish you to believe that public school is the answer to all of this; that little Johnnie or Suzie will learn such wonderful social skills in public school.

In this day and age, do I really have to tell you how full of holes THAT argument is????

Case in point: My 14 year old son. Great kid; truly a wonderful boy. Sharp, getting pretty tall and a good lookin' young man, so the girls are noticing him in a big way, etc., etc.......in his very first year of public schooling (ninth grade). He's even on the wrestling team and is doing well with that. Guess what lovely things his peers are trying to get him to do? Swear. Yep. They can't understand why he won't swear; he refuses to do it. They don't understand homeschooling, so they say things like "Bet you don't even know HOW to use drugs, do you?????" Again, you get the idea. THAT is what your kids' peers "teach" each other these days.

No, we didn't send our kids to public high school to learn "social skills"; trust me on that one.

You've gotta work at it. Commit. Put the effort into it. I recommend a curriculum from Christian Liberty Academy. We've used it all these years and it's unbelievably thorough, challenging, and highly effective.

Then get your child out into the world on a regular basis........not just to interact with other kids, but to learn about their world.

[RightOnline]

Speak of the devil........

Homeschooling Comes of Age

[kassie]

We have been home schooling for 8 years now. We travel from coast to coast. We've been involved with hundred's of home school families. In all that we've encountered we've only come across one family who truly did NOT teach their children. The mom suffered from depression and just didn't want to deal with studies for her children and she did end up putting them in classes in CA. For you to have gotten 6 children from the same community is somewhat hard to believe. My son goes into a group of peers and instantly is the one everyone wants to sit by. They want him to lead the group, or be the one to do the talking for the group. He is not shy, but would rather be around older children. He is of course quiet politcal and other 11 year old don't really care if Janet Reno is elected governor of FL or if Barney Frank is re-elected . My son does.

We have our son in an all Catholic Curriculum. Math is Saxon.

[TomSmedley]

The problem we keep wrestling with is socialization.

Not an issue. YOU and your wife are the most important "social" entities in your children's lives at this point. Jesus was treated with contempt for his lack of formal education, but he seemed to have learned something while hanging around with Joseph in the carpenter's shop! And no one would accuse the gregarious friend of sinners of being anti-social!

Seriously, though, the fellowship children hunger for most is with their own parents. Get that need filled, and they have all the confidence needed to take on the world with poise and tact.

[SauronOfMordor]

A lot also depends on the type of homeschooling that is being done. Some parents opt for 'unschooling' or 'child directed learning' in which they don't really teach many skills until the children decide they want to know them. That's a little too loosey goosey for me. I want my kids to be well educated in ALL the basics and be well rounded in other things as well.

While I don't operate according to a fixed curriculum (eg 9-10am math, 10-11 English, etc), I do have definite ideas on what my kids should learn. The main topics I cover with my 13-year-old daughter include:

• Mathematics and science
• History and geography (I've got her using "Oxford Geographic History of the World", which covers historical events and trends with lots of maps)
• Economics and philosophy (She just finished Hayek's "Road to Serfdom", and is going to start on his "The Fatal Conceit -- the Errors of Socialism")
• Literature, with emphasis on the "Great Books"
• Home Economics (cooking, etc)
• Self-defense, including marksmanship (she's now competant with rifle and pistol) and knife-fighting techniques (she's not going to be able to get a carry permit until 21, so I need something to fill the gap til then).

[Desparado]

We basically use the ABEKA system, and have our kids SAT tested every year at a local umberella school. But we have used a lot of additional material, most of it from The Elijah Co. in Crossville, Tn. which has an incredible amount of good materials for homeschoolers. Of course, you can often find good general books on such diverse subjects as Family Law. Finances, Art etc. at any good used book store for practically nothing. Also, if you have any Jr. Colleges or University Schools nearby, There are always bunches of interesting non-credit classes which are helpful and usually more than happy to welcome teenagers to come.

[gigi]

Thanks for the info. My oldest son is great in Math and loves computers, so we are looking into a magnet school that is technology based and he can get credit towards his certification for computer repair. I have not researched fully yet but have heard good things. If he doesn't go there then he will take classes at the college.

[arly]

If a child cannot make change at your local McDonalds, why would it be the teacher's fault? A child is at school 7 hours a day and with his/her family the other 17. The teacher bashing gets a little old sometimes. When do the parents have responsibilities?

are you trying to tell me that it is not the place of a teacher to teach kids simple basic math skills?...

[ArGee]

Of the others, all 5 are coming in with deplorable skills.

Are you saying that they have deplorable skills compared to what other government educated kids have?

Homeschoolers, this is worse than it sounds. It's not like they're behind for homeschooling, which I wouldn't be surprised to find 5 out of thousands who weren't up to homeschooling snuff. But these kids aren't even up to 6th grade level for a government school. And as all homeschoolers know, government educated 6th graders have deplorable skills. Often I have wondered if the government schools have anyone watching the kids to make sure education is happening. Whenever I talk to people in the government schools, they don't even seem to think there is a problem.

Anyway, it is definately unusual for any homeschooler to be behind government schooled children. Finding five in one classroom is a real shocker.

But don't worry about their social skills. In homeschools we don't teach them how to have sex, do drugs, carry weapons to school, act rudely, form cliques, etc. I'm not surprised these kids feel out of place in a government school.

Shalom.

[Khepera]

If the child fails to meet with your expectations then why do you blame their homeschooling? What if it is the intent of the parents to teach something that is more important in their minds than what ever it is you think is important. Why do you think that your definition of what a child needs to learn is as valid as the definition of that childs parent? The childs parent is the only controlling authority.

[Khepera]

Seems that Thoeting is using the wrong yardstick with which to measure these children’s education level. It could be that the standard that Thoeting is using is substandard in the eyes of the home school parent. Maybe it is something else that the home schoolers value besides Thoeting's requirements. Maybe its not Thoeting's place to judge because of a lack of qualifications to do so. Maybe nothing Thoeting knows is relevant in the face of what the home schooler desires for their children. I find that my dog is severely lacking when I use Thoeting's measuring device however if given the choice "Which to save" or "What’s more valuable" I will choose my dog.

[1 FELLOW FREEPER]

serious bump!!!!!!!!!!1

[cowgirlcutie]

When my husband and I first considered homeschooling in 1991, I was a concerned that our daughter would lag behind and fearful about the concern relatives had about developing "social skills". Well, the last straw at her private school was when she and four other children were ahead of the other students in her class, and instead of letting her move ahead with schoolwork, the teacher put her and the four others in the corner to play computer games (these games were not educational).We homeschooled her for 10 years and she has graduated and scored above the national average and homeschool average on her SAT's. As far as her "social skills" that we were so concerned about...she is far more socially skilled than I was. The children that you mentioned that were lacking in academic skills probably had parents who had no business homeschooling (i.e. lack of time, patience, etc.)I am of the opinion that homeschooling is definitely not for everyone. I too, have met some homeschool families who are a bit strange. However, I have also met some public and private school families who are a bit strange. I'm just thankful that we live in a country where we have the choice. It's the responsibility of the parents to have enough common sense and unselfish love for their children, to make the correct decision about their child's education.

[1 FELLOW FREEPER]

""look and guess" whole language method""

This system had been proven a failure 30 years ago. It dumbs down every student......this is why the public schools still use it.

[1 FELLOW FREEPER]

"If a child cannot make change at your local McDonalds, why would it be the teacher's fault? A child is at school 7 hours a day and with his/her family the other 17. The teacher bashing gets a little old sometimes. When do the parents have responsibilities?"

If you have a captive audience 7 hours a day for 6 years, and the "captive audience" cannot read, write, spell, or do simple arithmetic, you can DAMN well bet it is the teacher's fault!!