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Question to homeschool advocates

Posted on 01/18/2002 2:20:59 PM PST by Thoeting

I have a question to homeschool advocates.

I teach English to students with learning disabilities in a small (500 students) middle school. I work mostly with 6th graders. These are students who are 11-12 years old.

This September, we had 6 students enroll who were previously home-schooled. Each set is coming into the public school system for different reasons. In 2 families, the parents have split up and both parents must now work. The others either just wanted to try it, or were tired of home. or moved from a large city. Of the 6, 1 enrolled in the school's gifted/talented program. Of the others, all 5 are coming in with deplorable skills. 2 of them (siblings) are unable to recognize all letters of the alphabet, and are also quite weak in math. They can count to 100, and do 1 digit addition and subtraction. Of the other three, 1 cannot recognize cursive, 1 can spell nothing beyond four letters, and the last one reads at about a 2nd grade level.

Everyone one of the 5 that I work with have "iffy" social skills. None are comfortable around large groups, and 3 of them are actually afraid of the other kids. All of them prefer to be with the adults.

I work with these 5 in an English class. Because of their discomfort with large groups, I requested to have only these five for this year. I enjoy their personalities greatly and I am thrilled every day to watch them grow. However, even though they are of normal intelligence, it is likely, that most of them will not learn to read at a 6th grade level before leaving middle school, which means they will continue to be behind considerably into high school.

I know that there is a large homeschool contingent that read FreeRepublic and I would like to know if anyone here has seen a situation like this before. Is there anyone out there looking out for kids to make sure they are actually being instructed? At what point do homeschool parents start to get worried? Is there any type of agency that oversees homeschool parents? As I have conferenced with these parents over the course of the year, NONE were aware that there was a problem! Yet some of these children were up to 6 years behind.

Please don't take this as a slam against homeschooling. Obviously something went wrong in these situations, but I think (or at least hope!) that the majority work well.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: braad
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To: Khepera
Are you also proud of taking a cheap shot at Stanz in your post#77? You wrote "If you don't understand, it may be due to your public education". You then thank someone in your post #84 for their wise "council". Looks like your publik edukashun failed you, hotshot hypocrite!
101 posted on 01/18/2002 4:32:01 PM PST by gueroloco
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To: Thoeting
Well, I read the whole thread (so far, anyhow), and I'm truly frightened. My wife and I are thinking of homeschooling our 3-year-old daughter. We have older sons who survived the public schools here, but we are concerned that a little girl would have more trouble. We are well educated and can easily teach most subjects at an elementary level or better.

The problem we keep wrestling with is socialization. There are few children in our immediate neighborhood, and we have no nearby family members with small kids either. We would try to get involved with a homeschool group, but, frankly, some of the people who homeschool strike us as fanatical, to speak charitably. I think many of the responses to your very thoughtful post more than confirm our worst nightmares.

102 posted on 01/18/2002 4:32:05 PM PST by madprof98
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Comment #103 Removed by Moderator

To: gueroloco
You don't like it? Tough!
104 posted on 01/18/2002 4:41:09 PM PST by Khepera
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To: Khepera
Actually, I find it amusing to see hypocrites like you trumpet their ignorance for all to see. The correct word to use would have been "counsel". Of course a public school graduate like yourself cannot be expected to know the difference between "council" and "counsel". Neener,neener,neener-you moron!! LOL!!!
105 posted on 01/18/2002 4:50:42 PM PST by gueroloco
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To: madprof98
It is proper for your children to remain in public schools. You cannot seem to think for yourself and are hesitating to homeschool because of what others around you think. You are content to let the socialist government indoctrinate your children to embrace diversity and tolerance of all manner of deviant thought and abhorrent activities.

Just because you find some homeschoolers to be radical you have doubts about your ability to raise your own children properly. Your first thought is that maybe the government knows best. You don’t belong in the homeschool movement because you want your children to be socialized into a liberal Marxist society. This is because you want them to accept what society has to offer. Many homeschoolers do not want their children to blend in with society, they want them to change it.

106 posted on 01/18/2002 4:59:10 PM PST by Khepera
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To: gueroloco
Name calling will not enhance your position.
107 posted on 01/18/2002 5:01:03 PM PST by Khepera
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To: Thoeting
It seems you have ruffled some feathers with your question about homeschooling! My wife and I have been homeschooling both our kids since middle school (about four years). Our daughter is now in college and doing well with a full load of core courses. I.E. A's B's. Our son is in Junior High school and takes more effort than our daughter did to keep him on course. They both have good basic skills, speak a second language(Spanish) and play musical instruments to the point of being able to read music. The problem that we have seen with homeschooling families is that there are a fair number of people who are keeping their kids out of the public school system for many good reasons; but are unequipped to properly educate their children. This is the dark little secret about homeschooling. It is just not for everybody. I believe it is a great thing if you have the skills and discipline to do the job, but, that said, there are a lot of people out there that just should not be homeschooling their kids. We are very happy with the results and the way our family has come together because of our decision, but it's just not for everybody. Hope this helps.
108 posted on 01/18/2002 5:06:19 PM PST by Desparado
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To: Thoeting
I have a question for you Tho !.. how come there are so many kids completing public school and not being able to make change for a $1 working at McDonalds?
109 posted on 01/18/2002 5:06:48 PM PST by arly
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To: madprof98
There are ways to socialize your daughter, dance classes, tumble classes, things like that. You don't have to socialize with other homeschool parents. I didn't. Whenever anybody gives me the line about my son not getting to socialize with the kids at school I tell them to drive by the high school and see why I don't worry about it. Do what you think is best for your daughter.
110 posted on 01/18/2002 5:10:16 PM PST by gigi
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To: madprof98
My wife homeschools our daughters (1st and 2nd graders) and there are plenty of opportunities for socialization. Take them to the library, the park, and church. Your local rec center may even have time reserved for homeschoolers. Allow them to experience life! Instead of waiting for your child to take Consumer Math in high school, take them to the store and teach them yourself!
Our local grocery store has an area set aside for kids to play while the parent shops...Our daughters go in there and put on puppet shows for the other kids!
The other day, the younger one answered the phone as it rang. The caller, a GOP solicitor, couldn't get over my daughters' courteous and polite responses on the phone. Is not teaching proper manners and responsibilities homeschooling?

You have to ask yourself whose values do you want instilled in your child? You have a tremendous opportunity to mold and shape your child and prepare them for their future.

111 posted on 01/18/2002 5:14:38 PM PST by Typelouder
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To: arly
If a child cannot make change at your local McDonalds, why would it be the teacher's fault? A child is at school 7 hours a day and with his/her family the other 17.

The teacher bashing gets a little old sometimes. When do the parents have responsibilities?

If all teachers took the advice of folks here and left the system for an "honest job" as I believe it was referred to, who would teach the children--those without wonderful parents like those here. Just let them out on the streets?

Think about this--if all Christian teachers such as myself quit, the last little bit of "salt" leavening the bread would be gone.

112 posted on 01/18/2002 5:17:37 PM PST by Thoeting
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To: Desparado
It does take a lot of dedication and dicipline for the parents and the kids. I went through a few curriculums until we found one that we like. I have found that doing a correspondence homeschool works best for us. They provide the books, grade the tests and keep the grades. I had a hard time on my own and decided to go this way.
113 posted on 01/18/2002 5:21:59 PM PST by gigi
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To: Thoeting
Education Objectives

1. To give to every citizen the information he needs for the transaction of his own business;
2. To enable him to calculate for himself, and to express and preserve his ideas, his contracts and accounts, in writing;
3. To improve, by reading, his morals and faculties;
4. To understand his duties to his neighbors and country, and to discharge with competence the functions confided to him by either;
5. To know his rights; to exercise with order and justice those he retains; to choose with discretion the fiduciary of those he delegates; and to notice their conduct with diligence, with candor, and judgment;
6. And, in general, to observe with intelligence and faithfulness all the social relations under which he shall be placed.

-Thomas Jefferson

These objectives were apparently not under consideration in the cases you mention. Must it be a law that all homes and families adopt education objectives? We need folks who cheerfully engage in grunt work. They are no less precious than the mighty, sexy, perfectly educated ones.

114 posted on 01/18/2002 5:25:21 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: twyn1;Thoeting
Some kids' experience with so-called "socialization" in public school is a nightmare of bullying, verbal and physical assault, sexual harrasment, overwhelming immoral (ammoral) attitudes and constant peer pressure to be "cool" or be nothing -- now that's tragic !!

Thanks, twyn1.....take note Thoeting. Take note. Personally, I'm kinda wondering about the honesty of this thread and the scenario presented. Just a feeling, nothing to base it on....

115 posted on 01/18/2002 5:31:38 PM PST by Brad’s Gramma
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To: Thoeting
The slam is against public school students and even private school students. You have come across either: a rare situation in the lives of those you wrote about, or, you are fabricating. Statistics show homeschoolers excell, are apt non only academically, but also in relational skills. All the homeschoolers we know relate to peers perfectly, they have friends in public or private schools; their progress is monitored by national testing. Most of these homeschoolers achieve scholastic excellence and are also rounded in the arts and sports. Don't try to give us your only experience on homeschooling - worry about your teaching skills and lack of knowledge of something superior to your level of education.
116 posted on 01/18/2002 7:28:33 PM PST by Hila
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To: TomSmedley
Sing it brother.
117 posted on 01/18/2002 8:06:47 PM PST by Doctor Doom
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To: Thoeting
If all (government) teachers took the advice of folks here and left the system for an "honest job" as I believe it was referred to, who would teach the children

From their parents and privately employed teachers, who would be responsible for their actions, unlike government school teachers.

118 posted on 01/18/2002 8:08:17 PM PST by Doctor Doom
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To: Thoeting
***My question was more along the lines of what keeps it from going very very bad as in these situations?***

I've home educated my daughter for six years. I also lead a homeschool support group of 32 families...5 years running. I've seen plenty of evidence quite the contrary to what you're sharing.

I do know of one family whose children could benefit from a traditional education rather than being homeschooled. I know of countless public schooled children who could benefit from one on one schooling with a committed parent in a home education environment. Children who can barely read much less spell...who don't receive proper tutoring from teachers or aids due to class size and other administrative obligations.

True socialization does *not* mean chumming with a peer group of ill mannered children seeking attention. I'm not saying *all* public schooled children are this way...

We have one child so it's very important to us that she spend regular time with friends of all ages, attend coop classes, activities, sports, etc. She's a shy girl but has no problem in social settings, finding her way around and making friends after careful examination. Why is she careful? She would rather make a good friend than to get aquainted with the wrong crowd.

My daughter is in 6th grade. Can she add? lol! She'll be starting Saxon Algebra I in June. Can she read? She just finished "Last of the Mohicans"...a true classic. She built, along with her father, a radio out of a tp roll, foil, wiring, and an ear receiver. My daughter is the norm of homeschooled children I know.

One other thing. My daughter looks forward to her weekly visits with the elderly in a convalescent home. She brings neighbors flowers from our garden...which she helps till. Her postion in a community (not homeschool oriented) basketbal league is guard. Don't mess with her on the court. ;o) She plays guitar quite well and has begun writing songs. I'd say she's very well rounded as a homeschooler...a kid...and as a preteen girl.

Our commitment to her education is #1. This is very typical of homeschool families.

119 posted on 01/18/2002 9:44:36 PM PST by homeschool mama
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To: Khepera
My position does not need enhancing,sir. I called you out for what you are- a moron and a hypocrite- you incorrectly used the word "council" instead of correctly using "counsel". You demonstrated such incredible IGNORANCE minutes after browbeating someone with a differing viewpoint from yours with "If you don't understand, it may be due to your public education." You are an arrogant illiterate, and you have NO position.
120 posted on 01/18/2002 11:23:54 PM PST by gueroloco
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