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This war is not about terror, it's about Islam
The Sunday Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 10/07/2001 | David Selbourne

Posted on 10/06/2001 5:14:11 PM PDT by Pokey78

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To: Ulmo
They make fine medications for what you have.
61 posted on 10/07/2001 8:21:23 AM PDT by LS
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To: kosta50
First, I disagree that the "core" message never changes. With revelation, it certainly does become clearer. Abraham had no real idea of what the Messiah, or the Resurrection, entailed. He worked on the basis of the revelation he was given. Even Paul did not have the advantage of the "Holy Bible"---any of the letters written by John, Peter, James, etc. were not availble to him.

The Jews had the "core" of God's plan, but certainly didn't have all the details. They had to walk by faith on what they had. Remember, prior to Exodus, the Jews didn't even have the "ten commandments," so technically it wasn't breaking God's law to kill. You can't be charged with a crime that isn't on the books. As for "reformers," I think you are being way too harsh: what makes you think that the original inspired message cannot be perverted or corrupted by sinful men? The Reformation sought to RETURN to the original Gospel, not amend it.

Again, however, this may or may not apply to Islam. There are rules for reading the Bible, but these same rules may not apply to the Koran or Hadith.

62 posted on 10/07/2001 8:27:42 AM PDT by LS
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To: Anamensis
See, this is what I said earlier, though: it is imperative, in dealing with so-called "Muslim countries" that we determine "How Muslim are they?"

There are American Christians, including Falwell and Robertson, who claim that the attack was due to God's "lifting his protection" from the U.S. because we were not "Christian" (ie., "holy") enough. How "Christian" is Christian?" 50% of the people devout? 75% devout?

I agree with the person who says that the Islamic scholars say "no one takes the Koran literally anymore." That statement is possibly true---in the circles these scholars travel. (How many "devout religious" academics do you know? I know few, and I teach at a Catholic school).

What we as Westerners have to figure out is whether or not MOST of our ENEMIES who go by the name Muslims accept the Koran/Hadith as "divine truth" or whether it is a book on the mantle the way the Bible is for many Christians. This is the essence of our challenge. If most are not "devout," then we have nothing to worry about. If most are, then I suggest that the Koran and Hadith endorse violent subjugation and conversion, and that means that our war is indeed against Islam.

63 posted on 10/07/2001 8:35:30 AM PDT by LS
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To: Anamensis
Yes! You get it precisely. Now, which group "defines" Islam today? The "moderates" who seek to be educated, "westernized," and apparently peaceful, or the militants who are "fundamentalists"? I don't know, but we all need to find out.
64 posted on 10/07/2001 8:37:17 AM PDT by LS
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You may be right. It is incumbent on us to be sure, though, and not just assume. Declaring war on a religion, especially one as big as Islam, is serious business.
65 posted on 10/07/2001 8:39:06 AM PDT by LS
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To: LS
OH this article is SO DEAD ON....pass it around!
66 posted on 10/07/2001 8:44:00 AM PDT by Alkhin
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To: LS
. There are rules for reading the Bible

Interesting concept. Do you care to expand on this? Who made the rules? Who enforces the rules?

67 posted on 10/07/2001 8:50:49 AM PDT by been_lurking
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To: Pokey78

68 posted on 10/07/2001 9:34:54 AM PDT by Nick Danger
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To: LS; kosta50
Allow me to highlight the following, for clarification:
Koran-[9:111] GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.
Gospel teaches to kill in the cause of God? Speaking of the devil... kosta50

Yes, this is satanic verbage. To imply that God needs to purchase anything from humankind is satanic because it sets the entire of creation on its head, implying that the created are greater than the Creator. Satan would like for we humans to swallow that lie, if for no other reason than it will give him more roommates when the final division of the spiritual universe is done.

Islam, as the Koran characterizes belief/faith, is a works religion and all such religions are a subset of the lie begun in the Garden that appeal to humans making themselves 'good enough'; the lie to Cain's heart was that he could bring any damn offering he chose, regardless of what God instructed, and God should have to accept it! This same lie is only slightly inverted to read 'God needs money and bodies and bloody warriors, so He has to purchase them in exchange for paradise.' The terrorists believe this and so do the vast mnajority of Muslims, whether Wahhabist or otherwise; that is the nature culmination of a works based religion.

Judaism as currently practiced by Jewish fundamentalists falls into the same fold of works-based belief ... but the OT shows it is the purview of God what sacrifice will be accepted, forshadowing the coming supreme gift of Grace in Christ. [end of the dogma according to Marvin; take it or leave, as you wish]

69 posted on 10/07/2001 9:43:51 AM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: meadsjn
They're almost as big a threat to us as ALL the Democrats, half the Republicans, all the statist bureacrats, and all the other home-grown aspiring tyrant-wannabees.

Thats what I have been screaming. Predaters and parasites, thats what they are!Nonetheless I have a feeling that fact is about to change.Our last P was controlled by satan. President Bush looks to the God of the bible for his authority.

70 posted on 10/07/2001 9:58:18 AM PDT by winodog
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To: kosta50
Genesis, Ch.3

That's it?! LOLOL!!!!! Read the rest of the Bible. There's Deborah, Martha & Mary, Ruth, Rebekah, Queen the NT, Aquila and Priscilla are husband and wife and refered to as equals.

71 posted on 10/07/2001 7:54:42 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW
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To: LS
We have no choice in this matter. THEY have declared war against us, our religion, and our way of life. Their views on these matters and ours are inherently incompatible.

Unfortunately, you will see this being brought to the fore in the days to come as Pakistan waffles and collapses, the Saudis cut off oil, and violence erupts in Indonesia and right here in the U.S. in Islamic neighborhoods.

72 posted on 10/08/2001 6:11:04 AM PDT by ZULU
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To: wildandcrazyrussian,father_elijah
re : General Satish Nambiar, head of NATO forces during that time.

Wow first head of NATO who was not a member of any military affiliated to NATO.

He is an Indian General who headed the UN mission, he recognised that there were enough atrocities committed on all sides to give all those pervo types a raging hard on for years to come, and to keep the apologists of all religions and nationalities busy as well.


73 posted on 10/08/2001 6:23:09 AM PDT by tonycavanagh
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I tried to read it and fell asleep. What I saw though was a religion in which the "good rules" only applied to muslims. Infidels are to be shunned, taxed, and converted by the sword. In addition there is no equivalent passage to "render onto Caesar etc." The lack of this crucial tenet leaves muslims totally at odds with the western (and a lot of the eastern also) world. We should bear this in mind while passing immigration laws.
74 posted on 10/08/2001 6:23:23 AM PDT by Righty1
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To: Pokey78
Looks like the two terms are becoming more interchangeable every day....
75 posted on 10/08/2001 6:23:54 AM PDT by TADSLOS
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To: mathurine
I like GWB, but I do think he is about one or two more Islamic attacks from getting it.

I suspect he gets more than you're giving him credit for.

76 posted on 10/08/2001 7:10:26 AM PDT by VoiceOfBruck
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To: Pokey78
Terror=Islam. 'Nuff said.
77 posted on 10/08/2001 7:12:22 AM PDT by Republic of Texas
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To: Pokey78
78 posted on 10/08/2001 7:14:42 AM PDT by Aurelius
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To: Pokey78
I don't really care who it's with. If ANYONE wants to kill me, I'm going to try to kill them first!!
79 posted on 10/08/2001 7:19:31 AM PDT by rogers21774
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To: Pokey78
"This war is not about terrorism it is about Islam" is Osama Bin Laden's mantra and belief !!

"This war is not about Islam it is about Terrorism" is GW Bush's statements and belief !!

Now, guess which one I will side with and believe. I really wish people would "stop" perpetuating Bin Laden's beliefs !

Which side are we on folks ??????????????

80 posted on 10/08/2001 7:23:37 AM PDT by DreamWeaver
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