This war is not about terror, it's about Islam

The Sunday Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 10/07/2001 | David Selbourne

[RAY]

Yep -- 'frad so!

[kosta50]

I suggest anyone willing to comment on this should read the Koran first.

Contrary to some not-so-authoritative officials, I don't find it peaceful, forgiving and kind, unless you are already a Muslim. Rather I find it accusatory and full of anger. That's my impression, having read it. Read and be you own judge.

[Fred]

“Relentlessly and Thoroughly” - Historian Paul Johnson Analysis of Islamic Warriors Throughout History

[LS]

I've read it, or at least, segments of it. I also was involved in a project that required me to read the Hadith, which, according to the authoritative "Introduction to Islam," is considered to be the spiritual equivalent to the Koran. Betcha didn't know that.

If you read the Hadith, it makes YOUR point even stronger, though not airtight. The Prophet PERSONALLY ordered the horrible death and mutilation of people who so much as stole a camel (Jesus said of His killers, "forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"). The Hadith is the writings about Muhammad, and what he said and did, by those closest to him---sort of like the Gospels except for the "red letters." He had multiple slaves (Jesus didn't have a slave, but rather preached freedom); he had multiple wives and said women had only a fraction of the brain of a male; he sinned and admitted that he would continue to sin (Jesus was sinless); and he preached holy war against infidels.

LIKE CHRISTIANITY, if you really want to contort the message, you can. In this case, if you really want to misinterpret the overall message, you can get "peace" out of the Koran. But if you apply principles of consistency (what's called in the Bible "in the mouths of two or three witnesses"), then Islam looks to me like a violent religion.

However, we must be very careful with this, and we only need look as far as Israel: Israel is anything BUT an Old Testament theocracy. Modern-day Israel is dominated by so-called "reform Jews." I would guess that 90% of American Jews are "reform Jews." That is to say, they do not accept the most basic teachings of their "holy book" the Torah. So our question with Islam is, are the vast majority of Muslims "reform Muslims" (backslidden Baptists, as we used to say of my church, or "Jack Mormons" in LDS circles), or are they "devout." If they are "devout," and if, as I suspect, Islam is indeed a violent religion, then the author is substantially right.

[ikanakattara]

Paul Johnson's article is a must-read. Islam may be capable of "moderation" in the Western world as a "minority" religion, but as long as it's dominated by wahhabi fanatics, it poses a serious threat to all of civilization.

[kosta50]

if you really want to contort the message

But the "core" message never changes. The more you are a to-the-letter "believer" the worse you become. As far as the Jews are concerned, I don't know about the reformed, conervative, Hassidic, etc. No idea what theological diffferences exist between them. Don't care either. But the fact is the the OT treats women as gullable and guilty of sin just as the Koran does. I detest all religious "fundamentalists," but absolutely despise "reformed" or "attenuated," or "protesting" believers -- people who spiced up their religious beliefs to make them into something less ridiculous than what the holy books make them.

Christianity and Judaism (two worlds apart) are separate subjects. From what I gather, Islam is the only major religion that professes conversion (submission) by force and treats anyone who is a non-believer, a Pagan (or a Jew) as less then human.

But thenkas for the info. I will look up Hadith. Have a link perhaps?

[Cicero]

There's an additional consideration, as this article hints when the writers says that the first thing to go out the window in wartime is the truth. Namely, we need to use every propaganda weapon at our disposal, and one of the most important tools is "divide et impere," divide and conquer. We certainly need to do whatever we can to divide Shiite Muslims from Sunni Muslims, educated Muslims from uneducated, Wahabis from moderates, and so forth. But we all wonder, I am sure, whether Islam is not an intrinsically violent religion, a religion of implacable conquest--which is what a thousand years of history suggest, regardless of how "civilized" some of the ancient caliphs and Islamic philosophers may have been.

For seventy years the Communists conquered region after region of the world, and never gave any of what they had conquered back, until Solidarity and the fall of the Berlin Wall brought down the Soviet Union. But the Muslims have been doing it for more than a thousand years. They went into decline with the fall of the Turkish Empire, but even then they did not relinquish any substantial populations or territories. Now they are back in business again.

[spycatcher]

Good post, we need to fight whoever is fighting us. That's what self defense is all about

[father_elijah]

Cogent and to the point. Would that President Bush would read it.

[pgkdan]

For politicians simply to call all this "terror", and to promise to extirpate it with precision strikes and the denial of funds is a folly. As the equivocations of Saudi Arabia and a nuclear-armed Pakistan reveal, the Islamic nations know that it is the resurgence of Islam not "terrorism" which has prompted the West's call to action. These nations cannot afford to support this call wholeheartedly, no more than can any "good Muslim" spokesman in Britain, whatever Baroness Thatcher may expect of them.

In every war, the first casualty is said to be truth. In this one, our politicians have not even begun to admit to us what it is really about.

Waging a war on "terror" is the height of stupidity. The author says that our leaders haven't admitted to us what this war is really about. I wonder if they've admitted to themselves what it's all about.

[wildandcrazyrussian]

The article as posted mostly makes sense, except for his little crack about the "near-genocide of Muslims in Bosnia". Anybody who has read about the very successful propaganda coup carried out by the Muslims in the Serbian province of Bosnia-Herzegovina (and their allies in the American media) is aware of how the Muslims were able to lie to the world -- using such tools as the picture of the tuberculosis victim standing OUTSIDE a fence. portrayed as a victim of starvation by the Serbs INSIDE a fence, and going on from there to the Bosnian Muslim government shelling theri own people as at the Markale marketplace (to incite calls for NATO to bomb the Serbs in supposed "retaliation") and the US being immediately ready to blame it on the Serbs without any proof whatsoever.

General Satish Nambiar, head of NATO forces during that time, estimated that the entire Bosnian civil war cost the lives of 60,000 to 80,000 people (of 2,800,000, or 3%), HALF of whom were Serbs native to Bosnia. ANybody who writes that there was anything remotely resembling a "near-genocide"of Muslims needs to learn how to some simple research.

[pgkdan]

Contrary to some not-so-authoritative officials, I don't find it peaceful, forgiving and kind, unless you are already a Muslim.

That's exactly the point I 've been making. Moslem literature paints a utopian picture of the world where the entire world is islamic...until that day they will fight the kafir to the death. I hope we're ready for what lies ahead.

[Letitring]

I thought it was about murder.

[MeneMeneTekelUpharsin]

My father is an expert on Islam. This post is right on the money. But, as usual, almost no one is listening (or reading).

[father_elijah]

Yes. I quite agree. Folks should read the Bosniak Muslim Alija Ali Izetbegovic's writing. He has some pretty genocidal ideas of his own, and he was the former President of Bosnia. I read recently that he was a friend of Osama bin Laden, but I cannot recall the source.

[Mike Darancette]

The question to ask a Moslem is whether he worships the same God as Osama. If he answers yes then he is also the enemy.

[GuillermoX]

Also, another good question to ask them is if they would like to see the USA turned into an Islamic State, if they would like to see their Sharia become the law of this land.

[Anamensis]

Moreover, of the seven nations on the State Departments list of terrorist nations, five are Islamic.

FINALLY!! Finally someone just out and says it. Those SOBs are out to get us, always have been, always will be!