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Is This Winning? Western leaders can no longer hide the truth about Ukraine.
The American Conservative ^ | December 19, 2022 | George D. O’Neill Jr.

Posted on 12/19/2022 6:35:41 AM PST by NorseViking

Recently, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen carelessly revealed the devastating cost of the Ukraine war.

“It is estimated that more than 20,000 civilians and 100,000 Ukrainian military personnel have died to date,” she said. The comment drew sharp backlash and the E.C. later deleted the comments from video recordings of the address. The censorship was left unexplained and demonstrated the confusion of the purveyors of the approved narrative.

If Von der Leyen’s estimate is true, that is nearly ten times the number of dead Ukrainian soldiers reported by the Ukrainian government. The E.C. president’s remark shows that even the strongest backers of this bloody and unnecessary war can no longer hide the truth: Ukraine is at risk of losing.

The mainstream media and the Biden administration insist ad nauseam that Ukraine is winning against Russia. But the facts on the ground do not fit the narrative and the administration and media know it. The war hawks know their cynical Ukraine policy has not succeeded in driving Russia out of Ukraine. Tragically, the Ukrainians are the ones who suffer the immense cost of this foreign policy failure. Their nation is ruined for the sake and at the instigation of the globalist American empire.

(Excerpt) Read more at theamericanconservative.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: 100000deadukrainians; 100000deadulrainians; angerofthepunyneocon; feelthepunyanger; forzelsmiamidacha; gretaspunyhuman; intothegunsdearukies; intothegunsoncemore; mtacnik; neocons4biden; pilesofdeadukies; pilesofdeadulies; russia; swampniks; ukraine; ukraineslushfund; ulraine; vatnik; zelenskyworshippers
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To: tlozo

It fields similar systems in hundreds.
How is HIMARs different of Tornado S with GPS guided munition? They have same accuracy, but GMLRS in inferior inbramge and firepower to Russian missile.


101 posted on 12/19/2022 7:51:36 AM PST by NorseViking
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To: Raymond Pamintuan
Can you honestly say she did not say “more than 100,000 Ukrainian military officers have been killed so far”?

North of 100,000 officers killed. So that makes, say, 500,000 Uke soldiers (officers and enlisted) killed? At just 3-1 WIA to KIA, 1,500,000 soldiers wounded. Total Uke casualties of 2,000,000+?

That is more than 10X the number of Uke casualties the Russian High Command claims.

102 posted on 12/19/2022 7:52:08 AM PST by Pilsner
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To: NorseViking

When the new Republican House refuses to give Joey any more money to pay his Ukrainian and Russian blackmailers the “war” will be over in two weeks.
This was all show biz at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives snuffed out or destroyed.
The “combatants” don’t care how many people get killed they are just using this “war” as a cover for the money honey.


103 posted on 12/19/2022 7:52:27 AM PST by jmaroneps37 (Freedom is never free. It must be won rewon and jealously guarded.)
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To: Right_Wing_Madman

At this point it a war of attrition which Russia will win until they have a total revolt as with the Tzar after WWI. in the late stages of WWI, the Russians dropped their rifles and deserted the front line.


104 posted on 12/19/2022 7:54:03 AM PST by DownInFlames (P)
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To: NorseViking

If it would not be for the US most Ukrainians still would have a roof over their heads and sleep in their own beds and this war would be over by now. Probably the eastern portion of the Ukraine which has a large portion of ethnic Russians and was constantly assaulted and antagonized by radical groups would have been annexed by Russia and things eventually would have settled down. The only difference would be if Ukraine returns to Russian guidance as it has been previously for four hundred years would be somewhat less corruption and most of the radical elements would be wiped out.

The same goes for Europe if they had not jumped on the US bandwagon. The US purposely damaged the gas supply lines making sure that Europe in general and Germany in particular remains dependent on the US like a colony, just in case they may come to their senses and change their mind.

Those days when Russia had any ideas of expansion are long gone and over with and things of the past as Russia has more than enough and then some on its plate to take care of. All they want is a quiet neighborhood without NATO or CIA manipulation and intervention. Just like the US likes to keep their backyard free of any intruders, as expressed in the Monroe Doctrine. But the warmongers within the US government along with their associates and friends keep egging them on, knowing that a peaceful coexistence is bad for the production of war materials, especially the military industrial complex as well as the globalists, cranking out wartime supplies like there is no tomorrow and if they keep it up there may not be one. So, they keep stirring the pot until it will boil over and it isn’t too far from doing just that.


105 posted on 12/19/2022 7:55:31 AM PST by Saintgermain
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To: NorseViking

Stepping in here, why doesn’t the West just put together a coalition of the Willing and step in with several divisions and clean the crap up, end this war in 72 hours and stop the killing. What are we afraid of? Russia won’t nukes so they say and Pooties troops surely can’t handle 2 or 3 more fronts? LFG!!


106 posted on 12/19/2022 7:56:05 AM PST by The Louiswu (- .-. ..- -- .--. / ..--- ----- ..--- ....-)
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To: Sirius Lee

Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin was a longtime member of the board at Raytheon, maker of the javelin and other weapon systems. RTX has had a very good year.


107 posted on 12/19/2022 7:58:01 AM PST by hinckley buzzard ( Resist the narrative )
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To: The Louiswu

The war front is in DC and in Brussels.


108 posted on 12/19/2022 7:58:11 AM PST by ptsal (Vote R.E.D. >>>Remove Every Democrat ***)
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To: Pilsner
North of 100,000 officers killed.

Ursula was confused by a bad translation. She meant to say over 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers killed (enlisted + officers).

109 posted on 12/19/2022 7:59:23 AM PST by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: gathersnomoss

Joe Biden hit the fan.


110 posted on 12/19/2022 8:02:56 AM PST by Fresh Wind (Fake news, fake pandemic, fake vaccine, fake election, fake president.)
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To: NorseViking
From the researchers you rely on:

"They did not set out to document every death, and estimated that their Russian count was about one-third to half the true total. But by harvesting as much information as was available from social media posts and putting a name to every death listed, they figured their number was better than an estimate."

Your own source says 20,000 to 30,000 killed in action.

Why do you post false and misleading statements?

111 posted on 12/19/2022 8:04:22 AM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

I can’t a person with your chosen screen name seriously.


112 posted on 12/19/2022 8:05:53 AM PST by citizen (Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people - John Adams 1798)
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To: NorseViking
It fields similar systems in hundreds. How is HIMARs different of Tornado S with GPS guided munition?

US GPS has better accuracy, but more importantly how many Tornado rockets are produced every month? If it was in large volume the war would be over.

113 posted on 12/19/2022 8:06:10 AM PST by tlozo (Better to Die on Your Feet than Live on Your Knees)
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To: Right_Wing_Madman
Ursula was confused by a bad translation. She meant to say

Here we go with the "she meant to say". How do you know?

Maybe she meant to say "10,000" or maybe she meant to say "100,000 casualties, including KIA and WIA"

114 posted on 12/19/2022 8:07:20 AM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: freeandfreezing

nyt is not my source. These figures make no sense.


115 posted on 12/19/2022 8:08:19 AM PST by NorseViking
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To: DownInFlames
At this point it a war of attrition which Russia will win until they have a total revolt as with the Tzar after WWI.

That situation was different. Russia had so many internal problems by 1914. The Romanovs were already on the verge of collapse before WWI started. Putin is secure. Well, except he's dying of cancer and he's in a coma, too.

116 posted on 12/19/2022 8:09:19 AM PST by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: tlozo
How is HIMARs different of Tornado S with GPS guided munition?

HIMARS actually works, apparently the Tornado S and other Russian systems don't have anywhere near the same accuracy or effectiveness.

There is a reason the Russians rely on western components and even some ammunition smuggled in to their country.

117 posted on 12/19/2022 8:10:20 AM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: tlozo

Do you have any idea on how it works and what wins wars? All these systems are equally accurate, it is not some sort of space alien technology. They are obviously produced in higher numbers than GMLRS.
Also the GPS guided missiles have very limited applications. Only the Nazis believe in wonder wespons which win wars.


118 posted on 12/19/2022 8:12:22 AM PST by NorseViking
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To: NorseViking
Tragically, the Ukrainians are the ones who suffer the immense cost of this foreign policy failure. Their nation is ruined for the sake and at the instigation of the globalist American empire.

If that's the case, the Ukrainians will stop offering resistance. There is not a single soldier in any foreign army in the world that will risk life and limb for "the globalist American empire". The Ukrainian soldiers are apparently highly motivated for reasons of their own (preservation of their nation seems a likely reason), and articles like this aren't likely to remove their motivation.
119 posted on 12/19/2022 8:12:22 AM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: freeandfreezing

And this take is based on what? What is your military background?:)


120 posted on 12/19/2022 8:13:46 AM PST by NorseViking
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