Posted on 12/01/2022 3:25:44 PM PST by Mariner
We have seen an increase in calls for a negotiated solution of the war in Ukraine. From the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, from progressive members of Congress and from leading international relations scholars, a growing number of voices urge the United States to invest in negotiations between Russia and Ukraine and to give peace a chance. According to some reports, the Biden administration is also warming up to the thought.
It’s a dangerous idea.
Fears of nuclear escalation between Russia and NATO drive many to argue for negotiations, and although the impetus is well-intentioned, the suggestion is naive and impractical. In Ukraine, the choice is not between a costly, bloody war and diplomacy. The choice is between a bloody war and an equally bloody peace — which would itself lead to even-larger confrontation. The sad reality is that not all military problems have political solutions. Any discussions of ending the war should recognize this fact.
(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...
Brandon is still trying to partner with Putin to nuke up Iran. Germany’s Scholz was just today was fantasizing about partnering with Putin again. Yet Ukraine is still Ukraine. Surprising, really. Ukrainians certainly have shown more fight than the self loathing and defeated so-called conservatives who dream of an America ruled by the Chinese Communist party and their Russian allies.
Yes, it’s so “existential” that Putin allowed his army to become Potemkin fake that is riddled with corruption and incompetence. Billions were siphoned off for oligarch yachts and western property instead of armaments and basic items like quality tires for their military vehicles. Hilariously, Russia even “lost” a million winter army uniforms. How pathetic is that?
Zelensky is in a real bind. When he abandons the country, the hard core Ukrainian Nazi’s will chase him to the ends of the Earth as will the Russians. They may have to flip a coin to decide who gets the joy of finishing off the little clown.
"Russia's running out of weapons" is a daily salvo fired by the NATO proponents and SloJoe administration which "owns" the current Ukrainian government by virtue of paying their wages and retirement. Whoosh! Another salvo. "Russia is running out of missiles." "And washing machine electronics."
"Ukraine and NATO are running out of weapons!" An almost daily salvo is fired back by proponents of the Pooty Put. "NATO's arsenal is emptying with no production capability to restock!" Whoosh. Another salvo. "Putin's dying of cancer, Parkinson's, tremors and more."
Drone footage! Whoosh! No, this time I MEAN it! March said someone's running our of.... June said.... October said.... December says. Whoosh. Incoming salvo. Let us all salivate, if we are in the stadium cheering on our team. Yeah team! The other side should be called "Comrade." No, say the Gauleiters. No! The other side should be called "Gauleiters," say the Comrades.
For the remainder for whom this is not our circus and not our clowns, the side show on FR is delightfully interesting. Whoosh! The denouement will be a surprise probably with a twist or two. Whoosh!
Regards to all.
Keep telling yourself you also won the mega million lottery.
Some people are known to live in an imaginary world.
NATO and US are surprised Russia has not run out of bombs and rockets.
Russia is weak and in retreat. Reduced to outlandishly claiming huge areas of Ukraine they have never controlled. Putin is being managed by the EU and Brandon’s White House NSC. He’ll be allowed to keep the land bridge to Crimea as a consolation prize. Russia has been humiliated before the world by Ukrainian “farmers and miners”.
CONgress had better set up another money laundering country fast. Maybe Nuland and fat ass Vindman can find one..........how about Columbia, so they can get some coke for their parties.
War won’t end without a negotiated settlement.
Yeah Right. Germany, France, UK etc are soooo much stronger hahahaha. Germany is opening coal mines and coal power plants and UK inflation is double digits with massive money printing. Great victory by NATO countrie...right on!
Hip hip hooray! Raise the glasses!
“ Put differently, Ukraine has been de- energized, de- industrialized, de- populated, in the process of being de- militarized and hopefully de- Nazified.…”
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Yes. And “Reverend Mother’s” favorite unemployed Ukrainian airline pilot FLEES the country the first time he’s inconvenienced by temporarily being without electricity to charge his cell phone and the fear that his daughter feels. I have never heard him express a sympathetic word to the Donbas residents who have been repeatedly shelled by his government since 2014 and have frequently been without electricity. Thousands of the Donbas residents and their children have been killed and not one tear shed for them by the Ukrainian pilot.
This war and its killings on both sides needs to end. One day it will end. And the sooner, the better.
As usual those calling for battle to the death are all comfortably ensconced in front of keyboards and monitors.
F***ing REMFs.
As I have said here many times, I got no dog in this fight. Only thing which bothers me is the Billions upon Billions being sent to most corrupt country in Europe, while we are drowning in debt already. Our gov’t is borrowing more and increasing national debt to launder money in Ukraine.
So I will celebrate when this war ends. But then our gov’t will spend even more to re-build destroyed Ukraine. If US would have stayed out of foreign wars with borrowed money, the war and destruction of Ukraine would have ended long ago.
How about if Zelensky declares he will never ask for NATO membership again?
“”As I have said here many times, I got no dog in this fight.””
How weird that you will say that over and over while you are one of the most dedicated posters in support of the Russian invasion.
You either made death threats, or you didn’t.
Which is it?
Jim let him back on? That’s normally a lifetime ban...
Recently at another post someone suggested Putin cannot end this war by simply pulling out for fear of conquest. Since my sense of US and Europe is we are very unlikely to just move or help Ukraine move this war into Russia it is time to think about negotiations if Russia did decide to withdraw. Here is the comment I wrote:
If Putin or his successor were to withdraw completely from all Ukraine including Crimea, I doubt there would be any rush to enter pre 2014 Russian territory by Ukraine and allies. There would be a lot of negotiating to be done.
*For centuries Russia has been seeking a warm weather port with multiple wars and subversion. Part of a negotiated end of this war might be to offer Russia use of part of Sevastapol for strictly COMMERCIAL shipping, with appropriate inspections to insure that no weapons are imported or exported over the Kerch Bridge, or shipped out or allowed to enter the permitted port facilities.
* The west is holding a significant amount of Russian funds. Negotiation will definitely be required to determine how much of these funds should be returned to Russia and the oligarchs, and how much used for repairs and economic recovery of Ukraine.
* Much land in Crimea and probably elsewhere was taken over by Russians, including FSB personnel, some possibly bought (under pressure) from the original residents. A lot of this kind of issue may need to be litigated and subject to various forms of negotiated settlement.
* The applied sanctions against Russia and its oligarchs will need to be canceled or reduced, or kept, and will be an important point for negotiations.
* Many “war crimes” appear to have occurred. These will need to be investigated, litigated, and punished or resolved. If Russia withdraws, and is then NOT entered and conquered, there will be a lot of wiggle room for deciding who does what and how much to whom.
These are just some of the key issues that might be involved after voluntary withdrawal by Russia. Consider of course, how much more severe the consequences of such issues might be if Russia is forced out in violent retreat, and even has territory conquered as a result. This would be a good time for Russia to declair a voluntary retreat and ask for UN
representative supervision of that retreat to stop further theft of Ukraine resources, including civil equipment like fire engines and ambulances, and personal equipment like tractors and washing machines.
Anyone else have some ideas to share on Russian withdrawal and subsequent negotiation?
This is where I posted my original comment: Titled “‘Losing is not an option’: Putin is ‘desperate’ to avoid defeat in Ukraine as anxiety rises in Moscow”
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4113089/posts?page=46#46
Recently at another post someone suggested Putin cannot end this war by simply pulling out for fear of conquest. Since my sense of US and Europe is we are very unlikely to just move or help Ukraine move this war into Russia it is time to think about negotiations if Russia did decide to withdraw. Here is the comment I wrote:
If Putin or his successor were to withdraw completely from all Ukraine including Crimea, I doubt there would be any rush to enter pre 2014 Russian territory by Ukraine and allies. There would be a lot of negotiating to be done.
*For centuries Russia has been seeking a warm weather port with multiple wars and subversion. Part of a negotiated end of this war might be to offer Russia use of part of Sevastapol for strictly COMMERCIAL shipping, with appropriate inspections to insure that no weapons are imported or exported over the Kerch Bridge, or shipped out or allowed to enter the permitted port facilities.
* The west is holding a significant amount of Russian funds. Negotiation will definitely be required to determine how much of these funds should be returned to Russia and the oligarchs, and how much used for repairs and economic recovery of Ukraine.
* Much land in Crimea and probably elsewhere was taken over by Russians, including FSB personnel, some possibly bought (under pressure) from the original residents. A lot of this kind of issue may need to be litigated and subject to various forms of negotiated settlement.
* The applied sanctions against Russia and its oligarchs will need to be canceled or reduced, or kept, and will be an important point for negotiations.
* Many “war crimes” appear to have occurred. These will need to be investigated, litigated, and punished or resolved. If Russia withdraws, and is then NOT entered and conquered, there will be a lot of wiggle room for deciding who does what and how much to whom.
These are just some of the key issues that might be involved after voluntary withdrawal by Russia. Consider of course, how much more severe the consequences of such issues might be if Russia is forced out in violent retreat, and even has territory conquered as a result. This would be a good time for Russia to declair a voluntary retreat and ask for UN
representative supervision of that retreat to stop further theft of Ukraine resources, including civil equipment like fire engines and ambulances, and personal equipment like tractors and washing machines.
Anyone else have some ideas to share on Russian withdrawal and subsequent negotiation?
This is where I posted my original comment: Titled “‘Losing is not an option’: Putin is ‘desperate’ to avoid defeat in Ukraine as anxiety rises in Moscow”
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4113089/posts?page=46#46
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