Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

NYU students wonder why they didn't get an A for effort in organic chemistry class: Professor Fired Because Students Complained His Class Was "Too Hard"
Hotair ^ | 10/03/2022 | John Sexton

Posted on 10/03/2022 9:25:58 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Today the NY Times published a surprisingly interesting story about the current state of academia. The focus is one professor at NYU, Maitland Jones, who has long been considered one of the top professors in the field of organic chemistry. Jones taught at Princeton until 2007 and then moved to NYU where he had a year-to-year contract. His textbook on the subject is now in its fifth edition. But this year Jones was fired after a group of about 80 students started a petition claiming his class was too hard.

…last spring, as the campus emerged from pandemic restrictions, 82 of his 350 students signed a petition against him.

Students said the high-stakes course — notorious for ending many a dream of medical school — was too hard, blaming Dr. Jones for their poor test scores…

“We are very concerned about our scores, and find that they are not an accurate reflection of the time and effort put into this class,” the petition said…

“We urge you to realize,” the petition said, “that a class with such a high percentage of withdrawals and low grades has failed to make students’ learning and well-being a priority and reflects poorly on the chemistry department as well as the institution as a whole.”

NYU was clearly bending over backwards to please the complainers. They even offered to let students retroactively withdraw from the class, meaning low grades would not be on their record. But from Professor Jones’ perspective his teaching hasn’t changed all that much, the students have.

“Students were misreading exam questions at an astonishing rate,” he wrote in a grievance to the university, protesting his termination. Grades fell even as he reduced the difficulty of his exams.

The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

Apparently this course has a reputation of being a “weed out” class for students who want to become doctors. A fellow chemistry professor at NYU argued that students who couldn’t pass Jones’ class probably shouldn’t be allowed to become doctors. “Unless you appreciate these transformations at the molecular level, I don’t think you can be a good physician, and I don’t want you treating patients,” he said.

I can’t find a copy of the student petition, just the few excerpts mentioned by the Times. The tone of those excerpts sounds a lot like the sort of woke hyperventilation about student well-being we’ve seen a lot in the past few years. So I wonder whether the rest of the petition had more of that.

In any case, Times’ commenters are once again sounding more rational than NYU and its Gen Z students. Here’s the top comment with over 1,600 upvotes.

One of the students complained that the grades did not reflect the time and effort they put in.

That perspective misses the point. In life you are graded for results rather than effort. The students better understand that pretty soon.

The #2 comment is from a fellow professor who sides with Dr. Jones.

I’m a college professor and echo Dr. Jones’s observations about students having increased difficulties with concentration the past decade or so, beginning with the advent of smartphones and the ubiquity of social media. And although, in my experience, students are doing better mentally this year, they are still struggling in the wake of covid.

From this article, Dr. Jones sounds like a brilliant, deeply dedicated (still teaching at age 84!), if demanding professor. I would, however, amend Marc Walters’ statement to say that the university would “extend a gentle but firm hand to the customers and those who pay the tuition bills.” That’s really what we’re talking about: pleasing customers, getting good reviews, maintaining high U.S. News rankings, etc.

I, for one, hope I don’t receive medical care from a doctor who couldn’t pass a tough undergraduate organic chemistry course.

One more from another professor in a different field.

I taught a language that is difficult for English speakers to learn.

One year, the first test of the second semester came back with scores in an upside-down bell curve. The students either wrote a nearly perfect exam or missed almost everything. Very few were in the middle.

I asked the “A” students each to write an anonymous paragraph about how they had studied for the test. I collected these paragraphs and compiled them into a single handout.

When the class saw the handout, some of the students who had done poorly said things like, “But that’s a lot of work!”

Exactly.

Teaching mostly at small colleges that prided themselves on giving students individual attention, I had generous office hours and offered review sessions before the finals. I put certain aspects of the course on a self-paced basis.

Guess who showed up for the office hours and review sessions. The students who were already doing well. Guess who zoomed through the self-paced part of the course. The students who were already doing well.

Doing poorly in a class should be a reason not to go into certain fields. A student who can’t hack organic chemistry does not belong in medical school. A student who can’t hack calculus shouldn’t go into engineering. These courses should not be simplified for their sake.

Alternatively, we could just make sure that everyone gets a good grade so no one has their feelings hurt. But good luck relying on one of those doctors or engineers.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 0bloggers; 1619project; alwaysthewrongforum; babies; blackkk; blackliesmanors; blackliesmatter; blacklivesmatter; blm; bloggers; coddled; criticalracetheory; crt; defundthepolice; ericadams; firing; maitlandjones; medschools; newjersey; newyork; newyorkcity; newyorkuniversity; nyu; organicchemistry; princeton; professor; snowflakes; woke
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-115 next last
To: scrabblehack
He taught at Princeton 1964-2007.

Organic Chemistry is a tough class, yes. I washed out of it myself. It’s a lot of work for 3 or 4 credit hours - far harder than many other sophomore courses with the same credit hours, yes.

Prof. Kurt Mislow also taught Chem 303/304 at Princeton during that time. I fondly recall an overfilled lecture hall on the first day with people sitting in the aisles. Prof. Mislow said something like "don't worry about seating, there will be plenty of room after the first hourly exam." He was right.

81 posted on 10/04/2022 5:32:41 AM PDT by IndispensableDestiny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: beethovenfan

Some are lazy but my guess is kids on a premed track at NYU for the most part are not.


82 posted on 10/04/2022 5:43:33 AM PDT by Jolla
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Jolla

Some just don’t have the ability.

At this time no minority student is going to be told that they don’t have the chops to make it in their chosen field.

That is sad.

I remember when a teacher in a highly regarded private school pulled me aside to tell me that one of my black adopted children was receiving higher grades than she deserved in a couple of classes, and to be aware.


83 posted on 10/04/2022 5:47:19 AM PDT by Chickensoup ( Leftists totalitarian fascists are eradicating conservatives. Leftists are genocidal. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Bshaw

84 posted on 10/04/2022 5:56:30 AM PDT by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy saints surrounded.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Dave911

My science teacher son would say, “just wait until they get to P-Chem.”


85 posted on 10/04/2022 6:00:49 AM PDT by KC Burke (If all the world is a stage, I would like to request my lighting be adjusted.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Chickensoup

Rght-wing organization brands several NYU profs as radical leftists
A website run by Turning Point USA accuses professors of spreading leftist views and discriminating against conservative students.
Tori Morales, Staff Writer,Apr 6, 2022

Six NYU faculty members have been accused of spreading left-wing propaganda and discriminating against conservative students by Professor Watchlist, a project launched in 2016 by right-wing group Turning Point USA.
The organization, co-founded and run by Charlie Kirk, aims to promote free speech, free-market capitalism and limited government to high school and college students to counteract what the organization characterizes as the dominance of leftist political beliefs within universities.
TPUSA’s website states that its purpose is to “expose and document college professors who discriminate against conservative students and advance leftist propaganda in the classroom.” The NYU professors on the list are Ulrich Baer, Ruth Ben-Ghiat, Amin Husain, Arthur Caplan, Mark Crispin Miller and Frank Leon Roberts.


86 posted on 10/04/2022 6:16:52 AM PDT by Bookshelf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
You are mistaken if you don’t think the vaxxxes are screwing with peoples brains.

It's possible that you're correct. However, you've failed to show any evidence to support your hypothesis, and failed to account for any confusing variables. Your bold claim "You are mistaken if you don't think etc." is on the same level as the global warming/climate change crowd's hysterical shrieking.

And, just for clarity: for a host of reasons, I rejected the creepy synthetic mRNA experiment and I recommend that other people avoid it.

87 posted on 10/04/2022 6:37:28 AM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: Paul R.

I always thought that organic I & II were the roughest courses that I had to take. They ended up becoming my “one – up” on my son.

My son, before he received his EE and Biomed Eng degrees, was thinking about applying to med school, so he took organic, dropped it, took it again, dropped it, before finally passing it (he decided to become a lawyer after that – which he did).


88 posted on 10/04/2022 6:40:40 AM PDT by FMBass (USN vet DE-1074 Retired Chem E)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Chickensoup

Don’t give up hope: Miss 130IQ may well realize, after some time bagging burgers, that there’s more to life than burger-bagging and managing burger-baggers ... and pursue some other direction in life. Some people, even very intelligent people, need to be slapped in the face with reality.


89 posted on 10/04/2022 6:41:29 AM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Do restrooms in academia have diaper dispensers for students?

Asking for a friend... /s


90 posted on 10/04/2022 6:50:14 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NorthMountain

No she is the example that many of us know of bright articulate people often well educated who cannot emotionally manage the stress of more than the minimum. Like the Yale dropout who is a night custodian, or the valedictorian who now resells clothes on ebay for minimum monies.


91 posted on 10/04/2022 6:50:24 AM PDT by Chickensoup ( Leftists totalitarian fascists are eradicating conservatives. Leftists are genocidal. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

You can bet none of the complainers were Asian students.


92 posted on 10/04/2022 6:54:55 AM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

I have an undergraduate degree with majors in chemistry and biology. I struggled with organic chemistry, perhaps because I took it as a freshman, having taken chemistry 101/102 in the summer prior to my fall semester. Fortunately my overall GPA and MCAT scores were sufficient for acceptance into medical school. Having practiced both academic and private medicine for over 40 years before retirement, organic chemistry played almost no role in my medical practice.


93 posted on 10/04/2022 6:59:24 AM PDT by SC DOC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Chickensoup

I ran into this old guy, while working summers during college, who’s job was to move barrels of flanges around in this hot dirty factory. It was tough physical work.

I bumped into him at a local dinner, and somehow got on the subject of calculus. Turned out he had a degree in mathematics (I had just completed a differential equations course, and knew the jargon, so I don’t think he was BS-ing me). He said that he couldn’t handle the stress of that occupation, preferring to do physical labor. He justified it by saying at 5 PM he punched out, and had nothing to worry about when he went home.


94 posted on 10/04/2022 7:06:33 AM PDT by FMBass (USN vet DE-1074 Retired Chem E)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Organic Chemistry is one of the best predictors of success for anyone that is seeking education to be a doctor. Structures, reactions, and properties are easily compared to Anatomy, Physiology, and Pathology.

If you can’t “get it”, go do something else.


95 posted on 10/04/2022 7:19:20 AM PDT by drSteve78 (Je suis Deplorable STILL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dennisw

😆🤣😂🤪 Touché !!


96 posted on 10/04/2022 7:24:04 AM PDT by David Chase
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

I remember being in high school and college 30-something years ago and hearing about how difficult the organic chemistry classes were. They were always difficult, and, I suspect, for good reason. You need to be good at it to to be proficient at things like medicine (mentioned in article) and running an oil refinery or petrochemical plant.

It was always difficult. This professor was not out of line; the students were.


97 posted on 10/04/2022 7:24:09 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (FBI out of Florida!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tired&retired

“You cannot emotionally learn organic chemistry.”

Excellent, i will use this for my pre- doctor students.


98 posted on 10/04/2022 7:26:47 AM PDT by drSteve78 (Je suis Deplorable STILL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Alternatively, we could just make sure that everyone gets a good grade so no one has their feelings hurt. But good luck relying on one of those doctors or engineers.

People like these will be responsible, directly or indirectly, for more fiascos like that pedestrian bridge collapse in Miami.

99 posted on 10/04/2022 7:29:05 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (FBI out of Florida!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RedElement

I’d love to take that course, even if I do horribly at it, just because even if I’m not good at it, I would still learn a lot. But that will have to wait until I have a steady job again. :-)


100 posted on 10/04/2022 7:31:41 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (FBI out of Florida!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-115 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson