US Navy scraps NINE anti-submarine warships that cost $3.2 billion to make - some under three years old

FOR DAILYMAIL.COM ^ | 13 May 2022 | ADAM SOLOMONS

[dennisw]

-Because their technology is already obsolete Navy will decommission its entire fleet of Freedom-class combat warships Four of the $3.2bn fleet set for scrap heap were commissioned in 2019 and 2020

Anti-submarine system 'did not work out technically', naval operations chief said Ships 'incredibly expensive and [lack] the capabilities we expected': Rep. Smith Added: 'They're not ready to do anything... When they are, they still break down'

USS St Louis, launched in August 2020, will serve just three years of 25-year life Scrappings will save $391 million as US Navy plans new shipbuilding program Crews at Naval Station Mayport, Florida will have to wait for new ships to arrive Chinese Navy is set to count 460 warships by 2030, becoming world's largest

The US Navy will scrap nine warships worth $3.2 billion - despite some being just three years old - because their technology is already obsolete.

Anti-submarine systems on the Freedom-class combat warships, four of which were commissioned in 2019 and 2020, 'did not work out technically', the Navy's operations chief said.

Admiral Michael Gilday asked Congress to sign off on the scrapping, which will save the Navy $391 million.

[Yo-Yo]

And that's because drug-runner boats are well known for being especially slow & cumbersome -- easy to catch, right?

C'mon, man! You don't chase down a 30 foot Cigarette boat with a 280 foot Coast Guard Cutter. That's what the shipboard-based helicopter and RIB boats are for.

[Yo-Yo]

The coasties couldn’t afford to operate them. The transmissions that integrate the cruising diesels with the high-speed gas turbines, basically don’t work. To fix them, the Navy would have to cut the hulls open. Cheaper to build new ships with the improved transmissions.

The proposal for Coast Guard Cutter use would be to eliminate the gas turbine and the combining transmission, and just go with diesel power. You'd lose the top end of the DCS, but would increase range and endurance by eliminating the gas guzzling turbine while still reaching 20 knots which is what most Coast Guard Cutters do today.

The Navy LCS requirement was for a 40+ knot dash speed capability, but that isn't needed for Coast Guard use.

[Gaffer]

I have been involved with defensive weapons systems procurement in the past serving on at least one procurement for a CM/R radar set.

The biggest thing I see as a major error is when the military departs from pure performance-based requirements to doing its own engineering and specification development. Weapons System X must do this, do this and do that with this degree of assuredness. Instead, what you see is all-too-often they start stipulating that Weapons System X has to use this technology, that specific frequency or propulsion system or whatever. DOES THE SYSTEM PERFORM ACCORDING TO OPERATIONAL REQUIREMENTS AND CONDITIONS is all that is needed.

What you end up with is a weapons system that met procurement specifications to which the government lackeys signed off on and it doesn’t meet the operational need.

[NWFree]

They have to keep placing new build orders with their buddies in the military industry whether it’s really needed or not. 🤪

[Vaduz]

Biden wonder how much the cartels will pay.

[Tallguy]

I wonder about the overall sea-keeping ability of that hull design. The navy is buying the FREMM design for the next frigate. That might be a little large for a cutter, but there are smaller foreign frigate designs that would fit the bill.

[Yo-Yo]

I wonder about the overall sea-keeping ability of that hull design. The navy is buying the FREMM design for the next frigate. That might be a little large for a cutter, but there are smaller foreign frigate designs that would fit the bill.

The USCG already has a program of record to acquire the Offshore Patrol Cutter, so a new design has already been selected.

https://www.dcms.uscg.mil/Our-Organization/Assistant-Commandant-for-Acquisitions-CG-9/Programs/Surface-Programs/Offshore-Patrol-Cutter/

Current plans are to acquire 25 of the 360' OPCs at an estimated $411 million each. If half of those could be replaced with ex-Navy DCS hulls, that would be a significant savings to the U.S. Taxpayer.

[Bookshelf]

Amen. Ships, tracked vehicles and stationary artillery are as obsolete as the sling. It is almost certain that twenty years from now wars will be fought by robots or humans behind screens. There will be no more pilots. The navy fleet will be no more than subs and that too should be a dangerous occupation.

[Billthedrill]

The problem with waiting too long to cut your losses is that there are more losses to cut. The LCS program encompasses two classes of ships, the Independence and the Freedom classes, totaling 24 ships commissioned so far. Notable vulnerabilities were noted nearly ten years ago against land- and ship-launched anti-ship missiles, which recent Russian experience in the Black Sea appears to bear out. The scale of this failure is mind-boggling.

[SuperLuminal]

Seems to me that they could serve as canon-fodder distractions when the chicom fleet arrives in NY harbor...

After all, leftist-controlled U.S. governments have always done that with half-trained soldiers in the opening stages of WW1 (Wilson), WWII (FDR), Korea (Truman), and Vietnam (Kennedy-Johnson)...

[FtrPilot]

Ships, tracked vehicles and stationary artillery are as obsolete as the sling.

I agree that stationary artillery is obsolete. I believe that ground warfare employed by Russia has not adapted to the high tech arena. However, I do not believe that surface ships are obsolete.

My hope is that Navy doctrine, strategies and tactics are being updated to reflect the high tech threat.

I believe that the scientists and engineers that design and develop high tech offensive weapons can also design and develop high tech defensive weapons capable of neutralizing the offensive weapons.

Suppose that the Space Command (founded under President Trump) has a primary mission of destroying or disabling all enemy satellites within 48 hours of a declaration of war. The enemy can't hit what they can't find.

If the surface navy ever becomes obsolete, then the army and marine corps can transfer to the Department of Homeland Security since they will have no way to get to the battle.

[allendale]

The Navy has an inordinate faith in defensive weapons such as lasers which have not been tested in true combat scenarios against technologically competent opponents. During the next five years the Navy will do all it can to convince Congress that those defensive weapons justify huge allocations for more surface combatants. The Army no doubt will be seeking big allocations for helicopters and armored vehicles. Wonder how many of the Congressional representatives would want their children to crew those ships, tanks or helicopters.

[Captain Jack Aubrey]

If Biden were just trying to reduce US military strength, why wouldn’t he do exactly this?

[DaBroasta]

Is there a USS McCain out there somewhere?

If the Navy still uses garbage scows there should be a USS McCain with the USS Clinton serving as it's sister ship.

[Mariner]

The US Congress procures ships.

[Mariner]

“Within five years the Navy will come to the painful realization that their entire surface combatant fleet is obsolete. The silicon chip and other technological advances have made these ships death traps.”

There is not a single modern nation, or Navy, that agrees with you.

Not one.

[Bookshelf]

You make an excellent point regarding the use of satellites. However, and I don’t think this is telling tales out of school, during the Cold War the US service was tracking every Soviet naval vessel at a site... I think it is probably tracking every potential enemy vessel now. Regarding the destruction of a nation’s satellites, it would have to be followed by an attack a la Pearl Harbor. However, even then the counter-attack could be devastating. Thus, I don’t look for such an event in my lifetime. However, I can see something stupid like Putin using tactical nuclear weapons in a ‘fit of rage.’ How the Western nations would respond to that is still a question. I conclude that should warfare continue its dreadful spiral that robotics will be an essential element of future action twenty years from now, and robots will eventually take the place of humans in uniform.

[JimRed]

Hey, oligarchs...yacht conversions, anyone? Make an offer!

[BroJoeK]

"C'mon, man! You don't chase down a 30 foot Cigarette boat with a 280 foot Coast Guard Cutter.
That's what the shipboard-based helicopter and RIB boats are for."

Sure, but first the cutter has to get within range, which it can't do if it's being TOWED!!

Current US Legend class cutters are listed as 28+ knots max speed.
And LCS's these days are good for what... maybe 15 knots?
The first LCS Independence cost over $700 million (about the same as a Legend cutter), but Wiki lists the average build cost for the Independence class at $360 million, obviously not including repairs & rebuilds.

Independence and Legend are about the same length, but Legend is 4,500 tons and Independence maxes at 3,500 tons.
I guess that's the difference aluminum makes...

And Legend cutters have three times the range of Independence LCS's.

But the really important difference is that Legends work as advertised, Independence -- not so much.

Coast Guard Legend class at sea:

Compare to LCS Independence IN PORT:

[BroJoeK]

"The proposal for Coast Guard Cutter use would be to eliminate the gas turbine and the combining transmission, and just go with diesel power.
You'd lose the top end of the DCS, but would increase range and endurance by eliminating the gas guzzling turbine while still reaching 20 knots which is what most Coast Guard Cutters do today."

Max speed of both Freedom & Independence class LCS's is limited by problems -- with gearing on Freedom and structural cracks on Independence.
Somewhere I heard their max speed is now just 15 knots.

Legend class Coast Guard cutters are listed as 28 knots, max., with a range over 12,000 miles versus the LCS's 3,500 miles.

Somehow, I just don't think the Coast Guard will like those LCS's.