Flake extends his attacks on Trump and the GOP — all the way back to the dawn of birtherism

WaPo ^ | August 6, 2017 | Avi Selk

[Seizethecarp]

But Sunday, as he promoted his book on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Flake took his assault on Trumpism back years further — all the way to the pre-dawn of Trump’s political rise, to “when the birtherism thing was going on,” as Flake put it to host Chuck Todd.

“Some people did stand up, but not enough,” the senator said. “That was particularly ugly.”

“Did you do enough?” Todd asked.

Flake smiled. “On that, I think I did.”

Flake was a congressman in 2011, when Trump flirted with a presidential run against President Barack Obama.

The current president did so “spouting all sorts of Four-Pinocchio innuendo that had long ago been debunked,” as The Washington Post wrote at the time.

Trump wrote a letter to the editor in the New York Times, for example, advancing a host of bogus evidence against Obama’s birth in the United States and, thus, his legitimacy to occupy the White House.

[rx]

And by the same token, you don’t know for certain if that piece of flotsam came from the same aircraft which crash landed in the water with Fuddy on board

Indeed I do. But this is just another of your feeble attempts at creating doubts within things that I have noted have already been verified by the experts and on-scene people. Their testimony would stand up in court, while your mere conjectures would not have the credibility to stand without hard evidence.

You attempt to spin conjectures into theories without evidence (e.g., your inference that the flotsam is just my imagination and that there's no evidence to back itup, or your conjecture about an exhaust extractor on some green Caravan somewhere, several posts back. The picture in my post #173 is picture #5 as shown in the MCP extract below, thus my evidence is fully supported, for which I didn't earlier drag in the support image and logical paradigm. I was merely tailoring what I said to the person (you) that claimed "less is more," which you apparently treat with a personal ethical relativism.

That picture of the "flotsam" was supplied by the Maui County Police as part of their incident report! MCP identified it as part of the Fuddy Crash. So all your attempts at inserting doubt deserve simply to disappear. Similarly, the doubts you've attempted to interject about the green SEAL transport deserve to disappear. Your imagined evidence of what an exhaust extractor as you posted in a differently-equipped Caravan in posts #158 and #161 simply deserve only to disappear, as they are not relevant evidence. Though you've said about the bottom of your green Caravan image and the " 'slip and slide' thingamajig", "I would dare to say that both items are a colour-match." that's all wrong and not relevant evidence. Your doubts do not make for contrary evidence. None of those played a part in this crash.

Butterdezillion talks of a the likelihood of Fuddy having gotten make-over, which would be entirely Standard Operating Procedure for a person the authorities want to be able to start a new life, and all you can do, as in your post #150, is act as if she talked about a "re-engineering .. a new life form" as you show an apparently engineered creature from the deep. You, as 4Zoltan, HG and others are not seriously working toward the truth of this event. You are exercising the politics of personal destruction. Those kinds of responses are not normal interactions between conservatives. (And please spare us all the, "Well, you deserve it-type comments.")

Your memory of what you may think I've said is obviously confused. Just as with the "flotsam," you would try to attack it as if we don't know it came from the plane as if Grand Caravan parts regularly wash up on Molokai beaches and the MCP don't supply pictures when they're part of their Incident report as part of a UIPA request.

[rx]

I’m confident the videography was intentional and that all the players knew of it and tailored their behavior accordingly. I believe the videographer and/or others edited things out of the recording stream to hide that which they didn’t want to show. That latter process seems to have been fraught with incompleteness and telling mistakes.

[Fantasywriter]

Butter, I am aghast and devastated to hear about your husband. Honestly, I can’t grasp the magnitude and implications of what you posted. It is heart-wrenching. Be assured that I will be praying for you all. Blessings...many blessings.

[Fantasywriter]

That Incident/Investigation Report list is dispositive. The depths of research that your evidence indicates is impressive.

[rx]

Thank you. Butterdezilion dredged up much more government info than I and is known as the "vexatious requester" among some FOIA/UIPA types.

She brought me on, mainly as the aviation guy. I'm hopeful my prayers will ultimately be the most effective expression of what I will have done to help.

[humblegunner]

even though it USED TO BE the hallmark research style of FR

Actually, that "research" had to do with real stuff that existed in the real world.

Yours doesn't.

Sweetiecakes.

[Fantasywriter]

I would imagine you two made a great team. I could never have been persistent enough to get all the reports and other publicly available records. I can only guess at the level of resistance you faced. Even if I disagree with some of your conclusions. I’m amazed at all the hard work that was invested.

As I’ve expressed elsewhere, I am convinced you two found something that was definitely not meant to be found. What exactly it was is unknown to me. But not unknown to the Deep State...unfortunately.

[rx]

Why should anyone take your word on such things when many highly credentialed aviation and military professionals uniformly have given our research and conclusions high praise?

[humblegunner]

Why should anyone take your word on such things

What is "my word" on "such things"?

I don't think I've expressed any opinion one way or another
other than that Butter's made up garbage is exactly that:

Made Up Crap.

Fact is you don't know, she doesn't know, and if there was
anything sketchy going on it wouldn't be any dumbasses like you what figured it out.

Because of those pictures of the SECRET OPERATION.

TARDS.

[Fred Nerks]

Well, answer me, what happened to the diver who turned out to be Fuddy’s trouser leg, the diving equipment that turned out to be her shoe, Yamamoto who was claimed top be NOT Yamamoto...and the various passengers who were claimed to be standing up in water deep enough to cover the wheels of the upturned aircraft? You can’t have it both ways. As your story slips into murky fantasies, you make up more stuff and insult anyone prepared to ask questions. I’m neither a subversive nor an obot. Just an individual you think you can bully by throwing more graphics and garbage at, obviously in an effort to make me buy a book.
No thanks.

[Fred Nerks]

In that (for some strange reason green tinted image) you can clearly see where the partly brown exhaust extractor, having been ripped from where it was fastened to the fuselage, is now floating above the nose of the sinking aircraft. You can also see a portion of the damaged luggage pod, almost in two pieces, floating against the aircraft as it is lifted by the wind, in the region where the greatest water turbulence was. The reason you see the suitcase close to the swimmer is that this portion of the luggage pod obviously didn't disintegrate and release the large suitcase itself until after the aircraft had come to a stop.

Ferdinand Puentes image doesn't have that green tint, but then, he wasn't trying to tell us what he filmed was some mystery personnel lurking near the nose of the Cessna, and a some sort of green flotation device...and btw, while I remember, whatever happened to the theory that the aircraft we were shown from which the passengers made their exit, wasn't really the same aircraft which was photographed from the air after it had landed in the water?

Whoops! Now you got me. I have to buy the book to find out, don't I? Not a chance. I am reading The Real Global Warming Disaster written by Christopher Booker at the moment, now there's a fascinating fraud well worth the time, I highly recommend it.

[rx]

Fred Nerks in #176: "I'm over and out. Have a nice day.

And yet, when you realized you'd be leaving on note of utter defeat, something apparently suggested you should give it another go. Do you feel you always need to leave on a high note for yourself? Too bad the real world evidence doesn't allow your counterfeit interpretations to stand.

From the brilliant butterdezillion: "You parse things that don’t matter and ignore the things [that] do. And the whole point is to waste [our] time because [we] can’t possibly correct all your crap and still have a life."

So now you're not over and out," right, Fred?

Somehow you found something else about which you thought you could niggle to fritter to waste more time. Your side has the endless amounts of dollars to pay for your time as well as that of 4Zoltan, HG and others. Meanwhile we get your ridicule suggesting we should give away our books.

Even if you mindlessly don't take pay for your denigrating insults, it's clear you guys don't manifest a heart of a conservative between you (as a variant of desperation the Graeae showed after losing their common possession).

Your conjectures-trying-for-thesis-status have been quashed by reality, yet you never admit any such thing. As another perspective on what I said earlier, you're in no way interested in progressing toward truth. Your only desire is to find something--desperately anything--sharp to be used as a shiv. So the current manifestation is a litany of things you consider were vaguely represented in the past. But you're not interested in the truth about such things. You merely wish to find something to be as a cudgel (OK, maybe a shiv).

That's no way to go through life, is it? Sorry, but you're just not going to wear us down with such a disingenuous strategy and behavior. We'd much much rather spend our energies with people for whom truth really matters, so they can be on the side where that is always prized.

[Fred Nerks]

...Your side has the endless amounts of dollars to pay for your time...

That silly statement just shows how far off the planet you are. I don't have a side, no one is paying me, I'm an Australian, an individual, I have eyes and absolutely no agenda other than to try and show WHAT I SEE.

That's no way to go through life, is it? Sorry, but you're just not going to wear us down with such a disingenuous strategy and behavior. We'd much much rather spend our energies with people for whom truth really matters, so they can be on the side where that is always prized.

I suggest that when you find where that is, somewhere where no one asks questions, GO THERE.

[butterdezillion]

After doing Christian apologetics with atheists and agnostics for a while, I was at a social function with a former college friend who is a professor of antiquities at a university. I asked him about the “the New Testament is a myth” theory and he gaped at me as if I had a hole in my head. He said real academics discarded that a long, long time ago because there is simply too much evidence that refutes it - evidence that the Gospels were written much too early to be the result of legends or myths.

But the arm-chair warriors never got the memo. They were still barking down dead alleys because they were never really interested in the evidence, just in beating down the Bible however they could.

Not saying all are like that - in fact, there was one who did seem interested in evidence, and several became friends with me and I’ve prayed for them since they say they want to believe but just can’t. But those who have an axe to grind, for whatever reason, are the slowest to come to terms with the evidence. And that fits a lot of Freepers lately. They have no idea how it looks to those with no axe to grind - no idea that their slip is showing.

One posting here basically keeps saying that he is on a personal vendetta to prove me an idiot. Doesn’t care much about the subject, just wants the world to know that I personally would NEVER have anything of value to give the world. His stated mission is to destroy me - keep anyone from ever believing me. What kind of person is like that? You talk about the politics of personal destruction; this “conservative” poster brags that it’s all he’s about in regards to anything I say. How does a person not see that such a personal vendetta is not only ugly, but contaminates any substance he would contribute (if he ever tries contributing substance, which he doesn’t)?

But that is the mentality of the deep state. If anybody poses a threat you have to DESTROY them. Every dig you give has to go for the jugular - play on every inner fear they might have, defame credibility at any cost and so stink up the place that any potential defenders give up and leave and it appears that everybody agrees with the psy-op. The mission is to destroy a person who knows too much. That’s what the sock-puppets are for. Wolves running in a pack trying to encircle their prey.

It’s ugly. It’s non-evidence-based. And it’s right here, right now.

[butterdezillion]

Images with the “Ferdinand Puentes” label on them are ABC’s low-quality images. You should not base analysis on that, now that the NTSB has higher-quality footage that can be looked at. Unless you’ve looked at that higher-quality footage you really can’t say much.

At this point, the knowledge we have about what is in these images does not rest on anything I’ve said or thought. At this point WE HAVE INVOLVED PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONFIRMED WHAT THESE ITEMS ARE. If you’re still harping on what I did or didn’t see then you are (willfully?) lagging way behind the times. This isn’t about me, except to those who have the same philosophy of personal destruction as the deep state crooks have in their psy-ops. As of yet, nobody arguing with us has even ACKNOWLEDGED that important piece of information.

Do you think you have more knowledge about the exhaust extractor and luggage pod than the aviation personnel who put these things together, or the investigators who analyze safety issues and wreckage from crashes? Because that’s who you’re arguing with. Sure, call me a crazy loser if you want. I’m sure that would make you feel real good, and you might even think you are convincing on-lookers not to listen to me. But that doesn’t change what the experts have identified from these images.

It doesn’t change the noise analysis from the audio - audio which was provably altered by somebody at ABC in an effort to hide what is transparent from the NTSB’s audio. It doesn’t change the gauge showing fuel being fed to an engine that had supposedly died. It doesn’t change the pilot’s shifting that only makes sense if the engine was running, as the audio and gauges indicated was the case.

To have all that evidence and STILL choose to argue about what I did or didn’t think I saw way back when... is to make this all about me. Which is what the deep state always does. They make it about a person so they can destroy that person and think they’re done with it. If we as a society continue to let that tactic work, then we as a society deserve exactly what we get - and it ain’t gonna be pretty. Unless and until we become an EVIDENCE-BASED people, we are a post-modern wreck, where people decide their own “truth” and nobody can know anything.

[Fred Nerks]

For the last time. I am as entitled to comment on what I see as anyone else is. If you HAVE INVOLVED PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONFIRMED WHAT THESE ITEMS ARE then you need to include this information with your presentation on this forum, not just tell us we have to buy the book to find out.

To have all that evidence and STILL choose to argue about what I did or didn’t think I saw way back when...

What evidence? A lot of cobbled together images one isn't allowed to dispute? A load of contentions supposedly from a team of experts we do not know who they are, or what their conclusions are? Sorry, but I am missing something. I think it's simply called proof. But then of course all I need to do is buy the book!

I just re-read through the FR thread with the tile I Made a Mistake remember that?

I MADE A MISTAKE LINK

The entire kerfuffle about the body in the coffin not being Fuddy because the coffin was the wrong size...etc. And all those people filing past in mourning, all being in on it. So you just made a simple little mistake about measurements, did you? It really was Fuddy in the coffin after all?

Sorry, you really can't abrogate your past contentions and take a new direction. You might remember what happened to the girl who cried wolf once too often. Once Fuddy's coffin wasn't too big or too small, it was just the right size for a blow-up dummy, was it? And the mourners filing past the coffin didn't know?

ok, now who's nuts? And why oh why are you basing all your bona-fides on what a very small number of freepers might be thinking? It's such a small audience for a world shattering conspiracy that numbers many thousands in its cast. There's the emergency services, the medical crew, the funeral director, the employees of the HDOH, Fuddy's friends and relatives, the Navy...just to name a few.

Like I keep saying, you need a Sponsor. Someone who sees things through the same lens you and your associate does. Maybe you should try Joel Gilbert. He's very good at this sort of thing. I mean, Joel found a piece of wood that had been lying in a shed for 50 years and was able to match that up to some photographs of an exotic model who posed for images in 1958 and presented them as being of Stanley Ann Dunham, who was still in high school when those photographs were first published. Joel would probably love your scenario for a film. Then you could give FR a break.

No personal insult intended. I just think you are heading into a dead end.

[Fred Nerks]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3120814/posts?page=59#59

Comment 59 posted by 4Zoltan February 9, 2014.

No further comment.

[txhurl]

Starting to sound like you two should be married. Longtime fans of both of y’all.

[Fred Nerks]

Big difference. When I realized no one wanted to accept what I presented, I gave it up. It’s true, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
And it’s particularly difficult when the horse senses there’s something in the water that doesn’t taste quite right...

[butterdezillion]

You’re still making it about me. You just don’t get it.

Have a good life.