That looks like a lot of bed rock has been eroded and taken away.
Posted on 02/12/2017 4:26:47 PM PST by janetjanet998
Edited on 02/12/2017 9:33:58 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
The Oroville Dam is the highest in the nation.
Is the water flowing through the power plant, or is that shut off? From the live shots, I don’t see any flow from the toe of the dam proper, where the plant is located.
Everyone caught a break when the regular spillway was able to handle the increased flow without rapidly eroding back to the base of the damn. It looks like the hillside that both provides the regular spillway exit route abd anchors the north side of the dam is made of pretty solid bedrock.
That's the key to this entire emergency: is the bedrock solid enough to allow them to continue @ 110k? For how long? It's really a race against time, but so far the regular spillway appears to be handling the situation. (Which of course could turn on a dime.)
As for future repairs/rebuilds, I wonder if they will simply build a monster catch basis lined with 15' concrete where the current cascade is falling at the end of the remaining regular spillway? That's a mighty deep cavern now that would take endless amounts of substrate to re-fill. It's probably why the problem occurred there in the first place. Might make sense to use the natural bedrock formation/elevation drop as the basis for the new spillway.
Sgt Schultz reported that he had seen nothing.
is that some water flowing under the spillway or just a reflection or something
It’s underwater and shut down. Some tower lines were also cut.
http://www.kcra.com/article/water-begins-to-spill-over-oroville-emergency-spillway/8732032
The power generation was halted when the water levels in the channel, which lead from the power plant, became high enough to compromise operation, DWR said.
Unknown, but that erosion seems dangerously close to the spillway.
Exactly.
Two important facts stood out-
1. The evacuation order remains in place per Sheriff. It’s HIS job to protect.
2. The DWR guy is not telling the truth about what happened and what’s happening. .his job appears to be dishonest pr..
I think it was run in through the NDAA act, but I’m not sure exactly. Then it was tweaked further with Obama. Basically, the President can call out the National Guard anytime and anywhere he deems there is an emergency, and can also call in foreign troops to operate on American soil.
We are at war with terrorists, and if the terrorists are here, that means we are living in battleground USA-so from the reading I did, it seemed like the former law on using US troops is rather moot.
It perhaps would depend on the quality of the bedrock from the break out to the outflow channel. Regardless, I betcha the new fix won't scrimp on rebar and quality/quantity of concrete.
Oroville Dam, A Failure to Communicate
Published on February 13, 2017
Scott Cahill
Construction Expert,Writer,Speech Writer,Public Speaker,Expert Witness,Sailor,Pilot,Political Blogger
A couple of days ago, I went out on a limb and said what I thought about the probability of cutback erosion of the spillways of the Oroville Dam. Oroville is an earthen embankment dam. It is a very large dam, the tallest in the US.
I noted the vents porting water on actuation of the spillway, and assumed that the plate slab failure would soon occur. The erosion is still occurring. The areas below the dam have been evacuated. The situation is tenuous, at best.
Many officials, during the evolution of the failure of the spillway, came forward to assure the public that all was well. All was not well, and all is not well. All shall not be well for a long while with this dam. Why can men not simply be truthful to other men? When did some fool decide that we must placate the American public, hiding any bad thing from them as if they were children?
I am a believer in men. I believe the people can handle hard truths. I also believe that people in jeopardy, deserve to be told honest truth. These “officials” have and had no right to placate. Each of us has the right and the responsibility to protect our family and ourselves as we feel best. We cannot do so if we are mislead.
Anyone involved in the safety of dams knows that the cutback of the primary spillway is a serious issue. Anyone in Dam Safety knows that the actuation of an emergency spillway that has never been used in the life of a dam is a big thing. This, of course means that water elevations are above any that have existed previously. Anyone in Dam Safety knows that an emergency spillway is not the same as a forest. An emergency spillway should be a grassed, even slope. No woody vegetation should be in the spillway. Part of the emergency spillway was cleared only days before it had to be used, leaving the worst possible surface to receive flow, loose soil. That is simply ridiculous.
Now the primary spillway is failing, due to a lack of proper inspection and maintenance, perhaps more, and the emergency spillway is also in a failure mode. There are only two spillways to relieve the reservoir of water. Rains have subsided, and from the most recent reports, the structure is intact.
Soon the same faces shall reappear. Their patter will be sunshine and roses, again. The sun is out and all is right with the world, but all is not right. Rains shall again come to this watershed and, now, having blown the whistle of evacuation, they shall worry about criticism and promise to never do that again. The next time they will not be so fast. The next time they will wait a bit longer. The next time they may wait too long.
We are the stewards of our infrastructure. Budgets are real, but responsibility of such stewardship is real, too. As men, as a nation, we have a shared responsibility to our fellow men, their well being and their property. It is a greater responsibility than any position or job. It is a societal responsibility that we all share, to care for each other. Lies and twisted truth compromise that trust.
Disseminate truth in all that you do. If you are in a position of authority, you must learn candid and honest truth. If you cannot, you need to surrender your position to another who can.
FEMA has a booklet on emergency planning for dams. On it’s cover is a picture of a large earthen dam. It is the Oroville Dam.
Scott Cahill
Perhaps they can reinforce the concrete will rails from the bullet train boondoggle.
;o)
Not exactly a new concept!! When the Overseas Highway (US 1) was built from Marathon to Key West FL, much of it was built on the original railroad bed partly destroyed in the 1935 hurricane.
They used the rails for highway guardrails.
... there’s active hydraulic excavation going on below the face of the emergency spillway.
The exposure of the rock after only about 30 hours of scour shows that the rock is badly jointed and fractured and capable of being moved out from the vicinity of the emergency spillway. But worse than that, it is being scoured out back toward the concrete pad at the base of the spillway.
If it had worked its way underneath the spillway base to the lake itself, there would be 30 feet of hydraulic head pushing water out the breach causing more vertical and horizontal erosion under the concrete spillway leading to its failure and exposing the lake water to catastrophic release.
Looking at now dry photos show how close the erosion got to the bottom of the spillway and how close to disaster they came. Though people may now cry about the evacuation being unnecessary, with the volume of water rushing over the emergency spillway on Sunday afternoon and no idea of the depth of scour, officials had no choice but to issue the evacuation order.
The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 Pub.L. 109-364
Federal law was changed in section 1076 so that the Governor of a state is no longer the sole commander in chief of their state’s National Guard during emergencies within the state. The President of the United States will now be able to take total control of a state’s National Guard units without the governor’s consent.[44] In a letter to Congress, all 50 governors opposed the increase in power of the President over the National Guard.[45]
Given the objections, this may have been modified, but almost every NDAA act since then has had something in it that could be considered iffy, but I haven’t really kept a list on all the changes, including the Obama Executive Orders which were often over the line.
Ya think, moron?
I’m so pleased to read his update. He sees what many of us see. The authorities are lying to the public.
That looks like a lot of bed rock has been eroded and taken away.
Alan, thanks for the caculations.
Throw in some large snow melts to really complicate this life and death zigsaw puzzle.
That looks like from today. Water was still coming over the weir at dark yesterday.
Now you’ve got me curious, so I checked Wikipedia. I didn’t realize that Coast Guard was exempted for the original act.
Here are the current exceptions to the Posse C. Act per
Wikipedia:
Exclusions and limitations[edit]
There are a number of situations in which the Act does not apply. These include:
Army and Air National Guard units and state defense forces while under the authority of the governor of a state;
Federal military personnel used in accordance to the Insurrection Act, as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles riots.
Under 18 U.S.C. § 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if domestic law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threats involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a nuclear or radiological weapon.
Such assistance may be by any personnel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect U.S. military preparedness. The only exemption is nuclear materials.
Support roles under the Joint Special Operations Command
Exclusion applicable to U.S. Coast Guard[edit]
See the Law Enforcement Detachments and Missions of the United States Coast Guard for more information on U.S. Coast Guard law enforcement activities.
Although it is an armed service,[12] the U.S. Coast Guard, which operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is not restricted by the Posse Comitatus Act.
The Coast Guard enforces federal laws within its jurisdiction, even when operating as a service within the U.S. Navy.[5]
In December 1981, additional laws were enacted clarifying permissible military assistance to domestic law enforcement agencies and the Coast Guard, especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States.
Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, and aircraft, as well as intelligence support, technological aid, and surveillance) while generally prohibiting direct participation of Department of Defense personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests).
For example, a U.S. Navy vessel may be used to track, follow, and stop a vessel suspected of drug smuggling, but Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETs) embarked aboard the Navy vessel would perform the actual boarding and, if needed, arrest the suspect vessel’s crew.[5]
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