Posted on 02/25/2016 9:26:00 AM PST by Fhios
In a bit of unusual news, the Utah Senate voted 20-6 to ask Congress to repeal the 17th Amendment of the Constitution. The 17th Amendment allows for the direct election of senators. The bill's sponsor, Sen. Al Jackson (R-Highland) argued that the 17th Amendment was not what the founders of the country had intended and changed the meaning of the role of the senators.
(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...
That repealing the 16th Amendment is a good thing, IT IS NOT A GOOD THING, in fact, it is the absolute worst thing that could happen!
#1: Overthrow of the Constitution and the establishment of a military dictatorship. While some at FR who favor this solution believe that this would be a temporary state of affairs, a study of history shows that once the military gets used to running things, it won't yield power back to the people. This is the Roman Solution. The Romans never got the hang of the rules of succession for an emperor, and that would no doubt be the problem here.
#2: Overthrow of the Constitution and establishment of a monarchy and a theocracy. See #1 above for details. This is the Hapsburg Solution. Who would be our royal family? Bush? Kennedy? Clinton? Rockefeller? What would be our national religion? Catholicism? Lutheranism? Mormonism? Some branch of the Baptist faith? Would we allow religious toleration or require all people to convert to the national religion under penalty of death? The only improvement over the Roman Solution is that at least we have the succession problem licked.
#3: Dissolution of the Union. This is the Confederate Solution. Thanks to the Lincoln Precedent, legal dissolution is only possible by a constitutional amendment dissolving the Union, and requiring three fourths of the states to agree to the terms of dissolution. Any other method of secession would risk a second civil war with hundreds of millions dead, and the country occupied and dismembered by enemy armies taking advantage of our lack of unity.
Do you have an alternative to those I've listed above? Can you perceive that a Convention of the States may be the only avenue left before people step outside the rule of law and resort to the cartridge box?
Absolutely, as it does not affect me, unless I choose for it to affect me because that is what an “excise” tax is, a tax we choose to pay by choosing to participate in gainful activities that require one to pay “excise” taxes. The 16th is a tax on activity, not on the money itself and not all activities that produce gains are taxable activities.
The income tax is just an excise; capitations still require apportionment; and you've been taken to the cleaners
(excerpt) The fact is, the income tax is not only a Constitutional tax, it is also a very desirable tax. Applied in strict adherence to its statutory design, the income tax is benignly-limited in scope. It is also a fit mechanism by which those who make money from the exploitation of public resources return to the common purse a portion of their private profits.
The Fascinating Truth Versus The Comforting Myth
"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie; deliberate, contrived and dishonest; but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." John F. Kennedy
So you believe the method of funding the government before the 16th amendment was defective?
The income tax is just an excise; capitations still require apportionment; and you've been taken to the cleaners
(excerpt) The fact is, the income tax is not only a Constitutional tax, it is also a very desirable tax. Applied in strict adherence to its statutory design, the income tax is benignly-limited in scope. It is also a fit mechanism by which those who make money from the exploitation of public resources return to the common purse a portion of their private profits.
The Fascinating Truth Versus The Comforting Myth
"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie; deliberate, contrived and dishonest; but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." John F. Kennedy
I’m sorry, but for most of us, working is not a voluntary activity.
Look at Rome.That is our fate. We were once a virtuous people fit for self government. You know the answer your self. Look what was elected in 2008. Look at the vast numbers following Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. Look at the people themselves: eating, drinking, drugging, copulating, evacuating their bowels and snoring. No! Self governance is in the past. Absent a miracle the future will be very violent and it will start at any time, just listen to the speeches of public figures.
By the way the “human offal” statement was directed at those who gave us what is in the White House and who follow Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. There are decent people left in America as there were such decent people in Imperial Rome. Decent people will not count absent a miracle.
“Wages” for income tax purposes is a legal “term of art” that does not mean all that one is paid.
26 U.S. Code § 3402 - Income tax collected at source
(e) Included and excluded wages
If the remuneration paid by an employer to an employee for services performed during one-half or more of any payroll period of not more than 31 consecutive days constitutes wages, all the remuneration paid by such employer to such employee for such period shall be deemed to be wages; but if the remuneration paid by an employer to an employee for services performed during more than one-half of any such payroll period does not constitute wages, then none of the remuneration paid by such employer to such employee for such period shall be deemed to be wages.
“Wages” is limited to activities Article 1 of the Constitution allows Congress to tax, these are called “excise” taxable activities and the wages/gains/profits that are acquired by such activities are connected to the public treasury. If the activities you perform for your employer are in no way connected to the “public purse”, that is, the source of those wages are derived from your employers access to the use of the public purse, then your “remuneration” is not considered as “wages” for purposes of taxation.
If Democrats have to elect Democrat state legislators to get Democrat US senators, what would stop them? People who split tickets now, voting for Republicans at the state level and Democrats at the federal level would just vote Democrat all the way if they have to.
It's not like it was before court-ordered redistricting when a heavily populated urban county and a sparsely populated rural county might each have one state senator. Change the way we elect Senators and people will chose state legislators to get the results they get under the present system.
What would change? Well, if senators are chosen by state legislators rather than by a direct vote of the electorate and Senate seats aren't apportioned by population, then decision-making power will pass to the popularly-elected and more representative House.
Indirectly elected bodies lose power when democratic ideas triumph. What the 17th Amendment did was allow the Senate to keep and enhance its power by making it directly elected and therefore more legitimate in people's eyes.
Don’t like this. It will empower an already corrupt political establishment.
I know all that, but your trust in people who crave power (why else would they be politicians?) is something I do not share.
The knuckleheads who go to this convention will simply ignore what the Constitution says and do what is in their own best interests: personal power.
Old saying: Careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
That is a warning that I personally heed at all times.
We disagree, but thank you for the information, FRiend. :)
And how was the method for funding the government prior to the 16th amendment defective?
3/4ths
The states do not need to beg. They have Constitutional means without Congress.
BINGO!
If so, isn't that prima facia evidence that it should be abolished?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! It is the “prima facia” evidence that the American citizenry needs to wake up & educate themselves about their Constitution & the laws that their representatives pass that are 100% constitutional in nature so to turn the tides on the beast, starve the beast that it once again becomes the benign pussy cat it used to be.
And how was the method for funding the government prior to the 16th amendment defective?
The funding for the federal government was not different before the 16th Amendment, either through excises, imposts & duties or by apportionment, the federal government had all the means necessary to pay for all the constitutional duties given it to do. Which, BTW, A1,S9 apportionment does not give Congress the authority to directly tax individuals. Apportionment taxes were & are to be billed to the states and then it is up to the states to determine how to collect the taxes from the citizens of their respective states that the state treasury had already paid to the federal government.
So, we must be careful what we wish for, because if the 16th is repealed and replaced with a ‘one size fits all because everyone must have some skin in the game’, then the Constitutional powers of taxation will have truly been usurped. And this includes Mark Levin's supposed “liberty tax amendment” that is anything but liberating, it is 100% tyrannical & socialist in its nature.
The problem is not with the law, it lies with the American citizenry's laziness in educating themselves as to the Constitution & constitutional laws their representatives pass. It never used to be this way. Prior to WWII, less than 8% of the working population filed 1040’s or paid ‘income tax’. Not because they did not make enough so to have to file, but because they knew the law and they knew that the law did not apply to their earnings. So what changed?
I pray you educate yourself and your family ... we did not have this resource when we began educating ourselves as to the nature and application of the ‘income tax’. I found this website last summer ... it contains everything we learned in one simple and easy to use website. ... begin by reading this and then prepare for a very RUDE awakening a to the damage we have done to ourselves & our nation by remaining ignorant of the truth of the benign nature of the 16th Amendment. ... http://losthorizons.com/Documents/The16th.htm
I will take a look at your link, but if all you say is true, what did the 16th amendment change, and why do you think people were lead to believe otherwise?
We, me and the two guys I’m pinging, have posted extensively on this.
Ignoring that it’s 10000% non-viable and any clown that ran on it as a major issue would get his butt handed to him, this is a friggin RIDICULOUS TERRIBLE idea. Politicians would make better choices? SERIOUSLY? That’s a joke. Corruption city, RINO city (dems + plus RINOS elect RINOS in every GOP state). The amendment was passed for good reason, the process was super corrupt. No.
What on Earth makes people think that politicians in state legislatures are better than Congress? Every dem supports “activist judges”.
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