Posted on 01/03/2016 9:31:09 AM PST by Lazamataz
In the last day or so, a very dangerous situation has emerged in Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, near the town of Burns, Oregon. Ammon Bundy and about a dozen men, armed with firearms, have occupied a closed Federal building on that property. The local Sheriff has backed down, and there are rumors of Special Response Teams staging nearby.
This building is a smallish, very isolated building in the middle of a large National Refuge. Someone posted on a thread under a Guardian news article about this, "I'm in Oregon. These guys took over a headquarters building but it's kinda like an old brick house your grandma would live in and it's at least 50 miles from nowhere. You guys have a good time."
I do not intend to explore the minutia behind the case. That is a matter for courts. I do intend to explore the responses to this that we should take, and those we should not take.
I had a chance to hear a CNN interview with Ammon Bundy. At best, his narrative can only be described as incoherent. The CNN host, remarkably constrained in his questioning, asked what the government could do to unravel this. After a lot of "um's" and "uh's", the best Ammon could come up with was, "The government needs to start following the Constitution." The host wanted a more definitive answer, and Bundy had nothing. Simply put, this guy is the perfect foil for a police-state government move.
We all agree. The Federal government does need to start following the Constitution. This is a fight for the court system, and if there is no relief there -- AND it happens to more than a handful of us -- THEN other more drastic measures can be considered. The key is the universality of violation. The cases of Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Bundy Ranch -- while all eregious -- are spread apart by years and have happened to the tiniest percentage of people. The proper response to these actions are judicial in nature. Take these things all the way up to the Supreme Court. These venues NEED to be fully-explored, first.
If, however, this sort of government abuse begins to happen in greater and greater numbers, there comes a time when there is a tipping point. When OTrauma just starts going full-Stalin, we must react, or die on our knees.
I don't think we are there yet, notice how delicately he's treading on his gun control Executive Order tomorrow. It's basically a tiny measure -- purported to be background checks if the seller sells 25 guns a year -- and he had his people research it for months before deciding to proceed.
There comes a time he won't be so careful or delicate. That's when we know the balloon went up. Either that, or if we ever awake to find that the electric or communications grid is down. Those are proper signs that something srastic must be undertaken.
If the Feds undertake an attacking action, and lose anyone, this will be the chance for OTrauma to actually impose some Stalinist directives. Anything from a declaration of a National Emergency to martial law could be reasonably taken, and the masses of people would go right along with it. See, the masses of people need to feel the boot before they will join. There must be more support by the general population before we can move. There are also several ways to conduct ourselves. One is more direct action, but another seems to be effective as well. Look at Czechoslovakia for how a successful 'velvet revolution' can occur, or how the 'Arab Spring' caused (admittedly harmful, in this instance) change. Anything where we are the vast minority, and a Fed-supportive populace is the vast majority, is simply a death sentence for more of our liberties, and perhaps even a death sentence for we who believe in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
This particular set of actions by Ammon Bundy are just unwise. One actually wonders if he wasn't emboldened or encouraged to act recklessly by agents of the administration, embedded in his group.
I call upon Ammon Bundy to stand down, and work the court system -- all the way up to SCOTUS -- at this time. I plead for all patriotic-minded individuals to stay away from this situation.
To read further, especially since I mentioned Bundy on another article.
The Bundy video you linked above interviews rancher Bob Kvari.
He says that he is at the wildlife refuge to “defend his cattle ranch” because apparently 1 bureaucrat is going to create a national monument “twice the size of Yellow Stone” that will choke off access for cattle/ranchers.
None of which has anything to do with the Hammond’s.
However, Bob does claim that his ranch has a catastrophic fire every year due to federal restrictions on herd size.
That’s it.
You want to go shoot federal agents as your way to resolve the above?!
Good grief.
It is all related Southack... you are simply letting your fear affect your thinking.
The Hammonds were convicted of arson...they were creating fire breaks during a dry year...understand how that relates to what that local rancher was saying? The government is trying to get rid of a bunch of ranchers in that area...it isn’t just the Hammonds. They are unscrupulous and cruel and unjust. It is not an American government...it is tyranny.
But, you really are free to sit and cower before your government...many others are as well.
“You don’t set a back fire behind firefighter while they’re in front of the fire. They’re lucky nobody got trapped in between.”
No luck involved; there just plain wasn’t anybody there to get trapped in between. BLM had no men or material to commit to the main fire, so the ranchers set the backfire as the only option.
If Bundy wants to water the Tree of Liberty, NO ONE CAN STOP HIM.
The problem is that Bundy will play directly into Obama’s predefined position of “Riught Wing Domestic Terror” which will provide a foundation for possible martial law etc.
No America is not ready to rise up against Obama’s tyranny,
or the tyranny of Obama’s presumed sucessors. But Bundy may really begin a process that is inevitable.
Maybe we will have to rise,but yet have an opportunity to make America Great Again by electoral process. If the political class elites( both democrats and republicans) stops that rejuvination of America somehow, we will have to rise, or alternatively become victims of a velvet national socialist ( liberal fascist) revolution. America will then have failed and been destroyed, making those who have become US ex pats accurately correct in their previous assessments.
Good read:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html
Your thoughts led me to this, as far as the Indian with the club: There might have also been a macho element of “counting coup.” Big bragging rights in going toe-to-hoof with a charging buffalo at the cliff edge.
If you live...
But that was what counting coup was about anyway, a display of bravery.
intend to write an editorial about Trump and the dangers he faces, as well.”
Please add me to your ping list. I want to make sure I don’t miss your editorial. Will this piece go out to a paper? Does any freeper besides myself make comments against the opposition at local newspapers?
I have said before, lawyers run it all and not just government. They get a piece of every business and have taken over higher education. Lawyers should be restricted to serve only in the judicial branches of government. No lawyers in the executive and legislative branches of governments would fix an unimaginable number of problems.
“
Exactly, the court system is the most corrupt branch of government, by far.
Yup. Pretty amazing folks, all considered. A few Spanish horses got loose around 1500 or so, and by what, 1700? Indians had mastered bareback galloping raids etc.
Americans are right to be proud of their native American / Indian heritage. And ashamed of some aspects of their treatment.
Tribal reservations instead of private property rights keeping them in welfare bondage to the fedgov being the worst.
Laz, when I went to Klamath, I was in contact with people in Montana and Michigan at the time and indicated that we were going to try and do what we were doing unarmed and without armed assistance...but that any declarations or comments or communications would be appreciated.
I know for a fact that both of those groups contacted the feds and indicated something very similar to what you post is saying.
Did it help? I cannot say. I believe it did. I do know that in that instance it did not come to gun play.
I might add that during the standoff. a number of the farmers understandably were ready to go there. Heck, I was outraged and could understand the desire...and in their place probably would not have been as patient.
But we held our own, and we knew there were a bunch of people who would go there if the federal government used storm trooper tactics and violence against us.
It never came to that...but it easily could have.
I view this situation in very similar terms. If the Hammonds have asked the Bundy’s to stand down over their issue...then they should stand down over those issues...but listening to some of the on site videos and communications...it is clear to me that with the Bundy’s and those now with them, there is more to this than that.
Each must decide for themselves.
There is clearly more at stake here than just the Hammonds. I believe that others should let the feds know that a Waco or Ruby Creek style massacre will have worse consequences.
At Ruby Creek, after the killings, Bo Gritz came in and helped negotiate a peaceful outcome...and in the end, Weaver got his day in court and was exonerated of all the serious charges.
I hope this can end peacefully...but I also know, whether it is here or somewhere else, if the federal government continues to erode and trample on citizen rights, sometime or another, it is going to flash beyond the point of peaceful outcome.
My prayer is that the people of this country will elect representatives who are serious about their own constitutional oaths and responsibilities and who will begin to turn back the clock on the unconstitutional/extra-constitutional activities. Route out the vipers who are attempting to institute it, and bring them to justice.
One can hope...one can pray...one should also always be prepared for the other. That is really what the second amendment is all about.
Yes, the federal government has already set the stage to claim that American Patriots are the larger terrorist threats, and the old media will support them on their claims of domestic terrorism.
Agreed.
Ruby Ridge and Waco both were horrible overreaches, but until such things truly become the rule rather than the exception, armed insurrection has zero chance of success, and will only strengthen those currently in power.
This is the wrong fight.
CBS just had Bundy’s son in an interview at the Refuge.
I recommend everyone watch that interview.
He did an EXCELLENT job. He came across very persuasively for citizen rights and their issue withy that refuge being expanded by the feds and ranchers being pushed out...and prosecuted by the federal government.
They showed pictures of the many people already there standing with them. It looked a LOT Like Klamath.
My prayers are with these people. They do not want to fight...they do not want to die...but they are willing to stand.
Bundy said this is not the militia, this is concerned citizens standing when the Federal government is abusing state’s rights and the state and county government are not protecting their citizens so the citizens are having to stand for themselves.
They want the state to tell the Feds to back away...and IMHO, they should.
Again, I pray for these people’s safety and success.
Can you share a link? Perhaps Ammon got his act together. Kudos on that, and kudos for him trying to stress a non-violent resolution.
I agree.
The Bundys don’t have the support of the Hammonds and occupying some buildings in a refuge doesn’t draw attention to the real issue of Federal prosecutorial abuse.
The Hammonds created some fires to save their property. This has been brewing for over 20 years. The Feds really want the land because of the mineral resources, so they are resorting to intimidation and abuse of bureaucratic laws.
Why the Hammonds should serve any prison time is beyond me (10 years now, are you kidding?). As far as I know, no one was harmed and fires were contained. Why not a fine and some restrictions, even that sounds rather tough.
It’s the Hammonds that should be leading the charge in fighting for their freedom. Demonstrations at the courthouse and exposing the names of the corrupt judges and prosecutors is in order. Juries need to be educated in jury nullification.
If the Hammonds refused to go to jail and stood ground on their property against the Feds, at least that would make some sense here.
Who knows. Maybe the Bundys were set up or paid off. The timing is right for 0bama’s new EO gun “laws”
Try to ignore the disinformation workers sent to post deceptions on these threads. The regime lies and their little workers lie the script.
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