the F-35 is nothing more than a money pit... and somewhere, PukinDog is laughing
Posted on 10/17/2015 3:43:48 PM PDT by PIF
The Israeli Air Force (IAF) is one of the most experienced and capable air forces in the world, with roughly 400 American-made F-16 and F-15 fighters in its inventory. For the most part, this force resembles a smaller version of the U.S. Air Force (USAF) “legacy” fighter fleet – fourth generation aircraft originally developed during the 1970s. Like the USAF, however, many of these aircraft are three decades old and nearing the end of their service life.
snip
If the F-35 cannot hold its own against fourth-generation fighters, which are increasingly equipped with infrared sensors that can detect stealth aircraft, it will be limited to ground-attack missions and require escorts to carry-out operations in contested airspace. The former head of the USAF’s Air Combat Command admitted last year that the F-35 was not built as an air-superiority fighter and needs the USAF’s existing stealth fighter, the F-22, to protect against enemy aircraft.
This shortfall represents a major problem for Israel, which cannot acquire the F-22. Congress banned its export and production ended in 2011. Israel will therefore have to continue to rely on its existing fourth-generation fighters to retain competitive air-to-air capability – which undermines a core reason Israel invested in the F-35.
(Excerpt) Read more at realcleardefense.com ...
I would not put it above the Israeli hi tech sector to invent stuff for upgrade that could make a P-51 Mustang competitive.
Regarding your last paragraph, sometimes it helps to have older equipment, as the pilots KNOW the limits of their rides and hone their skills. (My opinion, based upon observation only, not hands on experience.). From what I’ve read, RCAF pilots more often than not, beat out all NATO pilots in most combat drills. Winning, despite flying CF-18s received between 1982-1988.
Combine the above with the fact that the ‘Kheil HaAvir’ pilots KNOW that if they DON’T win an airwar over the Holy Land, they will have NO ONE to help them and no place to land! THAT is a very strong incentive to succeed! And yes, the Israelis are using older equipment (like the RCAF), but they are likely upgraded with systems the US, especially with O’Venal running the show, has little clue of.
Thirdly, and most importantly, is the fact that while EVERYTHING is owned by God, Israel is ‘the apple of His eye’. It is unwise and unhealthy to try to snatch His country from His chosen people! The last person, or country to ‘win’ against God is...
um... NO ONE... A lesson that O’Venal, Heinz-sKerry, ValJar, and other muzzies would be wise to learn.
Great points! Thanks.
The IAF is not just a matter of equipment they have won often with what was not considered the better mainframe Mirage and F-4 come to mind. The Training of the piolt is part of the eqaution and there opponets almost all use soviet combat methods which have been proved to be at best so so. (I think the Jordanians were brit trained at one time.)
the F-35 is nothing more than a money pit... and somewhere, PukinDog is laughing
The PTO on the front of the F-35 engine has 29,000 hp available. In the A and C models that isn’t driving a lift fan. That could drive a huge generator.
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/09/drones-armed-high-energy-lasers-may-arrive-2017/121583/
http://www.gizmag.com/lockheed-martin-tests-laser-turret-warplanes/39898/
I’ve spent a lot of time in the Yukon Territory specifically on the Yukon and love the Canucks on a one on one basis.
for later
Russia has supplied Syria with air superiority, fighter bombers, and ground support jets. The MiG-31s the SUs are equivalent or perhaps superior to anything the US possesses and have supplied Israel with - including Israeli upgrades. Nothing the Israelis can do to its existing AF will make fundamental changes in performance characteristics; they can only alter various load-outs and software - neither of which will change any stealth characteristics, speed, turning, weight, or thrust among many others.
Syria among others, as time goes by, could and will challenge the IAF: Iran is buying large numbers of advances planes from both Russia and China. Others are buying fourth gen planes from Europe. Read the article.
Russia and Israel have a temporary military working agreement, not a friendship. Russia intends to install multiple S300 systems in Syria, effectively shutting down all secret cross-boarder ops by the IAF - even in Israel.
No planes get within 30 miles of a F-35? Perhaps, but only if the F-35s have F-22s covering them. Most Russian BVR missile ranges are in the 100s of kilometers.
The F-35 “stealth” is not anywhere as good as one might think. And is largely a useless boondoggle. Its BVR missiles have to be strapped on externally as they do not fit internally, thus eliminating what little stealth the F-35 committee-designed plane possesses.
As of 1/1/2012 F-22 tooling was still in storage. It was to be stored for 2 years after last plane made. FWIW: some people have claimed the F-22 assembly program was restarted and has gone black - no proof of this is possible, of course.
Buying the complete Russian lineup - MiGs, SUs - and a few J-types from China would really be a message, if only Israel had the money.; maybe they will get sufficient money to afford this from sale of Leviathan gas and oil.
I think their attempts at home grown planes were largely done with major US assistance - Lockmart comes to mind, but didn’t go anywhere - so doubt Israel would find it easy going it alone on a new jet design - they really do not have the infrastructure nor the tools to build the tools.
However, the Russian MiG-31s and SUs are flown by Russian pilots usually and especially if things ever got hot in that direction. Admittedly things went badly for the Russians last time they tried that, but then things have changed: the Israelis would somehow have to get off the runway without the S300 seeing them and shooting them down before they were engaged by the Russian AF.
Inasmuch as the Lavi was an F-16 variant, they would be licensing, or just cloning, an existing 5th gen fighter. They’ve got their spies where needs be I’m sure.
One antique shoots down another. Today, BVR missiles would take out the Skyradier long before the pilot saw the MiG-31 or Su-35 ...
Look who drives most of the decisions these days and "one size fits all" is their favorite meme. Back to your vanilla cubicle of a living quarters, citizen....houses with rooms have been outlawed because some can't afford them.
Spies will spy, but no spy makes the sort of money needed to produce a modern plane from scratch, and Israel cannot afford to either - they are having some major financial problems at the moment.
An F-16 may or may not be a match for either the MiG-31 or SU-30 series. The Lavi certainly was not. There is only one operational 5th gen fighter - the F-22 (and possibly a Chinese knock off in testing) - the F-22 is not exportable thanks to the (ex-Dem Senator) Obie Amendment. The current state of the tooling is unclear.
The Mig-31 was/is primarily meant for anti-bomber/cruise missile missions. It’s not really meant for the fighter role. It’s long-range radar/missile capability is pointless in the face of the presence of AWACS and jamming that Israel will have.
While one for one, a Rafale and Eurofighter may be more agile than a Teen-series fighter, a lot of variables will cloud the picture.
The F-35’s BVR missiles (both the AMRAAM and Meteor) can be carried internally. Even a small load-out of AMRAAMs carried in stealth configuration make a huge difference against a fully exposed Mig or SU-30 variant.
Umm, the Lavi would have arguably been a better match against the Flanker variants given its design, though the engine would probably need a boost, over time.
Why do you think the Europeans adopted the delta-canard configuration on all the fighters they developed in response to the Flanker?
“The MiG-31s the SUs are equivalent or perhaps superior to anything the US possesses and have supplied Israel with - including Israeli upgrades.”
Mig-31’s are an old platform based on the Mig-25 Foxbat.
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