Posted on 05/02/2015 1:35:55 PM PDT by Jacquerie
A couple of prominent conservatives have expressed concern over the possibility of a runaway Article V state amendments convention. Such is their anxiety that runaway tyranny from Rome-on-the-Potomac pales in comparison to the possible horrors of the states getting together to relieve their people from oppression. Are these concerns fact based or irrational or somewhere in between?
An important, and likewise extra-congressional vestige of the federal system of 1787, and quite similar to an Article V state amendments convention in its constitutional foundation remains in force today. It is the familiar Electoral College (EC). Like the state amendments convention, the EC is also a specific grant of constitutional authority distinct from congress, courts and presidents. Both the EC and Article V convention are temporary, and neither can be made subservient to any branch of the government. This renders the EC and state amendments convention separate from, and superior to the three branches of government. The state amendments convention process is created by Article V; it is not a component of any of the three branches of government created by the first three articles. The limits to congressional involvement and duties are in Article V. Congress must call a convention upon applications from two thirds of the states, and determine the mode of ratification. That is all.
The EC is also loathed by liberals. Witness the National Popular Vote movement. The EC and state amendments convention processes represent end runs around liberals wholly owned government in Washington DC and media. The EC and an Article V convention are federal and therefore anti-democratic, which is why libs despise the EC and are working toward complete nationalization of presidential voting. Libs love democracy. Recall the 17th Amendment which turned ambassadors from the states into three-term, democratic and demagogic congressmen.
The EC and state amendments convention processes are federal remnants of a more perfect union that placed liberty preserving institutions ahead of fuzzy pablum populism, and democracy.
If you oppose a state amendments convention, do you also fear the Electoral College?
The EC is extra-congressional and completely controlled by the states. If the states are so wild and politically insane, why havent we had runaway sessions of the EC? For whomever the states cast their votes is entirely up to the individual states. They can split their votes between Uniparty candidates or cast votes for Joe Blow down the street. States can modify their statutes such that their legislatures may determine for whom to vote with zero input from their citizens. The EC confab is a one-day event. Isnt that dangerous? There is no subsequent meeting that requires approval of three fourths of attendees to implement the results. Why havent we experienced a runaway Electoral College?
Why hasnt congress set down the rules the states and EC must follow? Answer: Congress has no more authority to participate in the deliberations of the EC than it does to participate in, or set the rules for an Article V state amendments convention.
No state EC delegation ever ran away because the simple fact is that the duties of electors are defined by state statute. Replace the term elector with delegate, and you have a situation identical to that of an Article V amendments convention.
Delegates will serve their states. They will have no attachment to any statutory authority under the US.
Article V now, while we can.
That is why the senate must be returned to the states. Make the personal interest of senators coincide with the interest of their states.
For one, I guarantee that state appointed senators would never consent to leftist appointments to the federal bench. To be a leftist requires hostility to federalism/10th Amendment.
If you're going to so "calmly" call me malicious and a liar, at least have the courtesy to ping me. That's considered the decent thing to do on FR. One would think after a dozen years here you would know that.
My assertion is neither malicious, nor a lie. And you haven't made any case that it is either. All you've done is personally attack. Which means you don't really have any decent argument.
As long as we keep empowering that sort of politician, the kind who are more interested in reelection than in the keeping of their oath, and the survival of the republic, we’ll keep seeing the same results.
Our Constitution and political system cannot survive bad character in those we choose to represent us. It’s as simple as that.
And this plan does nothing at all to address that.
On its best day it’s a distraction. On its worst, it’s dangerous.
"No state EC delegation ever ran away because the simple fact is that the duties of electors are defined by state statute. Replace the term elector with delegate, and you have a situation identical to that of an Article V amendments convention."
"Delegates will serve their states. They will have no attachment to any statutory authority under the US."
Article V Now!
Vanity (A good one)A little full of ourselves, aren't we.
Congress must call a convention upon applications from two thirds of the states, and determine the mode of ratification. That is all.
So what?
Really? You want a convention because you don't like the "EC"...That's the best you can come up with? What does the "EC" have to do with the importance of constitutional amendments? ... The EC is extra-congressional and completely controlled by the states. If the states are so wild and politically insane, why havent we had runaway sessions of the EC?If you oppose a state amendments convention, do you also fear the Electoral College?
Are you sure we haven't? It's hard to believe anyone would try to make that connection/comparison to sell this...You "vanity" isn't helping your cause.
This is really getting to be a ridiculous cluster^&*k now.
First,Article V delegates important and exclusive authority over the amendment process to Congress (page 4)
"Second, while the Constitution is silent on the mechanics of an Article V convention, Congress has traditionally laid claim to broad responsibilities in connection with a convention, including (1) receiving, judging, and recording state applications; (2) establishing procedures to summon a convention; (3) setting the amount of time allotted to its deliberations; (4) determining the number and selection process for its delegates; (5) setting internal convention procedures, including formulae for allocation of votes among the states; and (6) arranging for the formal transmission of any proposed amendments to the states." (Page 4)NOTABLY , this "formulae for allocating votes" can and will massively sway the outcome of any amendment process, and is a GROSS corruption of the principle of the States themselves being Sovereign, thereby the sole Source of ANY authority for the Convention itself, and therefrom "one state, one vote", that vote not based at all on population, but rather State Sovereignty! By this, Congress can, and WILL, turn the outcome of the Convention into populist Marxist outcome, and not based on State sovereignty!
If the government ignores the Constitution we have now, why would you ever offer the same political class the opportunity to rewrite the rules to meet their preferences?
Weighted against an already ran away FedGov and a possible runaway article V convention well I will pick the latter every time. I think all the carping status quo cowards should STHU.
Because state governments are not so tainted. Even if they were it is better to have the power closer the people.
We already have a socialist/fascist government. You must be young perhaps 12? Are you a child that was born yesterday?
Report of the ABA Special Constitutional Convention Study Committee
The ABA Report is the view of the ruling class of 40 years ago. The ABA is only a lobbying organization, and it would be foolish to take their view as incontrovertible, which is what the CRS has done.
Secondly, James Madison disagrees with your view that the Constitutional Convention of 1787 was a runaway convention. Read Federalist #40 for details.
Because the federal political class is not involved in a Convention of the States.
Shutting Washington totally out of the picture improves the convention environment substantially.
Great let's skip the BS and start killing each other. Screw peaceful means.
You do realize that with the exception of TWO COUNTIES in Illinois, Illinois is a very red state.
The left got to a couple “staunch conservatives” and pretending to play to their cautious side, made it seem quite likely that it could go off the wheels easily, so these couple who were turned against it are hurting the process by their vocalization of outright lies, planted by the LEFT! This is the most sickening thing. But worse is that these “staunch conservatives” could be wooed by the left into turning against the ONLY thing we, the people, have left to use. It makes me mad!
Hi EV missed you. Well that sums up our present problem perfectly. I believe Article V is our last chance to reign in the monster peacefully. Bringing power and authority closer to home can't harm. I would also forbid judical review. Among other changes that would remove legal authority from the federal government to become tyrants and restore private property rights. We are certainly in a very dangerous position.
Bump for later.
Oh yeah, Illinois, California, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Oregon, Washington, Rhode Island, Maryland, Delaware, New York, Missouri, Vermont, Connecticut... You need a three quarter's threshold for a change, while existing UN treaties remain in place, and you think "the States can change it" when you need at least one of those States to agree.
What a load.
I guess post 78 applies to you too.
Howdy.
Doesn’t matter what you would do. What matters is who is picking the delegates, which in this case would be a bunch of people who have already shown they have little regard for the most important obligations of their oath. Garbage in, garbage out. Personnel IS policy, and all that.
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