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Do Libertarians Really "Want a World Without Moral Judgments"?
Reason ^
| 03/22/2013
| Nick Gillespie
Posted on 03/22/2013 8:51:10 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
On March 15 in The New York Times, liberal journalist and author Richard Reeves wrote an op-ed about the new plan in New York City to dramatize the many negative effects of teen pregnancy on girls who give birth before graduating high school and outside of a stable two-parent unit. Billboards and other advertisements around the city, for instance, point out that unwed teen mothers are twice as likely to not finish high school as girls who don't give birth before graduating.
With many smart qualifications, Reeves makes a case for shaming regarding teen pregnancy and other behaviors, and he does it from a liberal POV:
A society purged of shame might sound good in theory. But it would be terrible in practice. We need a sense of shame to live well together. For those with liberal instincts, this is necessarily hard. But it is also necessary.
My issue is less with Reeves' views on public shaming per se and more on an aside he makes about libertarians:
Libertarians might want a world without moral judgments, in which teen pregnancy carries no stigma at all. And paternalists might want the state to enshrine judgments in law perhaps by raising the age of sexual consent or mandating contraception. True liberals, though, believe we can hold one another to moral account without coercion. We must not shy away from shame.
I submit to you that few statements are more wrong than saying "libertarians might want a world without moral judgments." From my vantage point, one of the things to which libertarianism is dedicated is the proliferation of moral judgments by freeing people up to the greatest degree possible to create their own ways of being in the world. To conflate the live and let live ethos at the heart of the classical liberal and libertarian project with an essentially nihilistic dismissal of pluralism and tolerance is a gigantic error. It's like saying that because religious dissenters want to abolish a single state church that they are anti-god.
As the anthropologist Grant McCracken argued in a 1998 Reason story called "The Politics of Plenitude," our world is characterized by a "quickening speciation" of social types and sub-cultures, a liberating reality that is typically mistaken for the end of the world and the end of all morality. McCracken notes that plenitude particularly aggrieves conservatives, because they mistake an urge to escape "a morality" for an attempt to abolish "all morality." He explains:
The right acts as if the many groups thrown off by plenitude harbor an anarchic tendency, that people have become gays, feminists, or Deadheads in order to escape morality. This is not the logic of plenitude. These people have reinvented themselves merely to escape a morality, not all morality. New communities set to work immediately in the creation of new moralities. Chaos does not ensue; convention, even orthodoxy, returns. Liminality is the slingshot that allows new groups to free themselves from the gravitational field of the old moralities they must escape. But liminality is almost never the condition that prevails once this liberation has been accomplished.
courtesy PBSReeves is no conservative. He's a devotee of John Stuart Mill and, I rush to add, has said many positive things about Reason over the years. But his characterization of libertarians as uninterested in moral judgments proceeds from a very conservative - and very profound - misunderstanding of what I think we are all about. This sort of thinking typically emanates from the right - how many of us have had conversations with conservatives who equate ending drug prohibition with a case not simply for occasional use of currently illegal drugs but for an absolute embrace of never-ending intoxication and stupefaction? - but apparently it harbors a home on the left as well. (Go here to read part of a debate I had with Jonah Goldberg a decade ago on the same basic topic).
Shame is certainly not the first thing that most libertarians I know reach for in high-minded policy discussions or less serious conversations. On the narrow question of reducing teen pregnancy - which has in any case reached historic lows over the past decades - it's far from clear the role the sort of public shaming enivisioned by New York authorities will play compared to, say, frank discussions of the harshly reduced opportunities faced by young mothers. Certainly, it may make certain policymakers and politicians feel good, but that is hardly any ground by which to analyze the efficacy of a given policy (to his credit, Reeves calls for a cost-benefit analysis himself).
But it's time to start swatting away random accusations of libertarians as nihilists simply because we don't sign on to every given moralistic agenda that is proposed or enacted in the name of the greater good. No less a buttoned-down character than Friedrich Hayek once wrote that "to live and work successfully with others requires more than faithfulness to one's concrete aims. It requires an intellectual commitment to a type of order in which, even on issues which to one are fundamental, others are allowed to pursue different ends." The libertarian commitment to true pluralism and tolerance is not easy to maintain, but it remains exactly the sort of gesture that allows for differing moralities to flourish and, one hopes, new and better ways of living to emerge.
TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: libertarianism; libertarians; morality
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To: SeekAndFind
He seems to be saying that libertarians like moral "judgments," in the sense of each person's judging for himself what is "moral." It's another way of saying "moral relativism" ... you say tomayto, I say tomahto ...
According to this writer, what they don't like is moral norms, which come from outside the individual - indeed, outside the State - and apply to everyone, regardless of how any individual feels about them.
2
posted on
03/22/2013 8:55:04 AM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Now with more LOL and less UNNNGH.)
To: SeekAndFind
No.
We just have this crazy notion that the government shouldn't need to be mommy & daddy & R. Lee Ermy to a citizenry of grown adults.
To: Tax-chick
The man wants MINIMAL government involvement in deciding how an individual runs his life.
He isn’t saying that there should be no moral judgments at all. He just does not want the government making laws outlawing certain kinds of behavior that does not harm to others (e.g. marijuana ).
Having said that, I don’t think you can ran a society or a country without acknowledging SOME moral norms. It might be influenced by Christian, Muslim or Ayn Randian ideas, but you cannot avoid it.
To: SeekAndFind
Where the hell does that come from? I just don’t want moral judgements handed down to me from the ruling elite.
5
posted on
03/22/2013 9:00:48 AM PDT
by
DManA
To: Tax-chick
Moral norms are there for a reason. There is a reason we don’t think incest is a good idea.
6
posted on
03/22/2013 9:01:07 AM PDT
by
Viennacon
To: SeekAndFind
Everyone makes moral judgments...they’re just not always the same.
7
posted on
03/22/2013 9:01:22 AM PDT
by
stuartcr
("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
A surprisingly pathetic analysis of libertarianism in light of the extreme degrees of statism being established before our eyes.
>> But it’s time to start swatting away random accusations of libertarians as nihilists simply because we don’t sign on to every given moralistic agenda that is proposed or enacted in the name of the greater good.
Examples, Nick? Abortion, homosexual “marriage”? The former killing nascent human life; the latter requiring law to enforce compliance. A true libertarian is for the life of the unborn and opposes any law that forces citizens to service and support homosexuality.
Feel free to embrace your liberalism, Nick, but libertarianism is about enforcement, not morality.
8
posted on
03/22/2013 9:02:25 AM PDT
by
Gene Eric
(The Palin Doctrine.)
To: SeekAndFind
This person will not toss the god talk and judgments at them from the right, or the PC âthe villageâ caused this and will take care of it from the left. This person will say OK it is yours, you take care of it. I do not feel it is my responsibility to pay for your mistake or support this child for the next 18 years.
The biggest motivation for finding a job is hunger.
You got it, I am one of those people. If you feed the feral Americans forever and provide them with medical and housing then they will fail in taking care of them selves. We are proving this as I type.
To: SeekAndFind
This will be a fun thread.
To: SeekAndFind
From my vantage point, one of the things to which libertarianism is dedicated is the proliferation of moral judgments by freeing people up to the greatest degree possible to create their own ways of being in the world.How do you get from this statement of the author's to "The man wants MINIMAL government involvement ..."?
I don't suppose for a minute that he's speaking for everyone who identifies himself as "libertarian," but it seems to me that "proliferation of moral judgments" translates to "no moral norms or standards," simply as a matter of philosophy.
11
posted on
03/22/2013 9:07:16 AM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Now with more LOL and less UNNNGH.)
To: SeekAndFind; Tax-chick
Gillespie conflated the very things he should have distinguished; specifically, enforcement and morality.
12
posted on
03/22/2013 9:07:38 AM PDT
by
Gene Eric
(The Palin Doctrine.)
To: SeekAndFind
No matter how one cuts the pie, in practice the “Libertarian” position, devolves down to maximizing personal pleasure and the exercise of power over others.
13
posted on
03/22/2013 9:08:20 AM PDT
by
AEMILIUS PAULUS
(It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
To: Viennacon
There is a reason we dont think incest is a good idea.I believe the author would argue that, if incest is your way of being in the world, then that is your moral judgment, and it is just as valid as anyone else's moral judgment and way of being in the world.
14
posted on
03/22/2013 9:08:58 AM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Now with more LOL and less UNNNGH.)
To: SeekAndFind
Libertarians (at least small-l libertarians) want a GOVERNMENT that stays out of private matters, and specifically PERMITS individuals and companies to MAKE MORAL JUDGMENTS.
For example, the libertarian position is to support the right of a motel owner to refuse to rent to sodomites.
People confuddle government and private actors.
15
posted on
03/22/2013 9:10:23 AM PDT
by
TheThirdRuffian
(RINOS like Romney, McCain, Dole are sure losers. No more!)
To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
in practice the Libertarian position, devolves down to maximizing personal pleasure No, to allowing individuals to make that choice, or not, free of government coercion.
and the exercise of power over others.
Sounds like hogwash to me - how exactly does libertarianism do that?
16
posted on
03/22/2013 9:10:54 AM PDT
by
JustSayNoToNannies
("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
To: Tax-chick
each person's judging for himself what is "moral." ah yes, the lies... you will know good and evil, actually, you can DEFINE good and evil for yourself, because you are a god...
Every man's way is right in his own eyes... Prov 21:2
17
posted on
03/22/2013 9:13:43 AM PDT
by
MrB
(The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
I certainly agree with that. Libertarians are a lot like Liberals -- they like their own pleasure, and they are very interested in powering over other people to get what they want. They don't like it when others coerce them but in my experience, Libertarians are forceful individuals who want what they want, and don't like it when folks get in their way. As I say: a lot like Liberals, only with a slightly different flavor.
18
posted on
03/22/2013 9:14:17 AM PDT
by
ClearCase_guy
(The ballot box is a sham. Nothing will change until after the war.)
To: Gene Eric
... the latter [homosexual "marriage"] requiring law to enforce compliance.It surprises me that so few people mention this point, especially among "libertarians." Under our present laws, any pair (or group) of people can live together, own property together, and designate one another as heirs or attorneys-in-fact. They can have a wedding ceremony performed by a variety of celebrants, religious and non-, if they choose, or simply draw themselves a certificate.
There is no liberty interest in the homosexual "marriage" movement. It is an authoritarian position, dedicated to using the police power of the state to force others to act against their moral or pragmatic beliefs about certain kinds of behavior.
19
posted on
03/22/2013 9:15:01 AM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Now with more LOL and less UNNNGH.)
To: Tax-chick
>> “proliferation of moral judgments”
This is a bizarre example given it requires moral judgment to deem other moral judgments unacceptable.
20
posted on
03/22/2013 9:16:16 AM PDT
by
Gene Eric
(The Palin Doctrine.)
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