Whistleblower calls out IT giant over U.S. jobs (the usual H1-B visa scam)

CBS News ^ | April 12, 2012 | John Miller

[jiggyboy]

It's called outsourcing. American firms do it because foreign labor can be cheaper.

But now, one company is being accused of bringing those lower-paid workers to the U.S. illegally and that may be costing Americans jobs.

-- snip --

Palmer says Infosys, the global high-tech giant, engaged in a systematic practice of visa fraud, a charge the company denies.

Palmer said the first thing to catch his attention was an employee that had been in the U.S. from India several times before.

"He came up to me and he was literally in tears," Palmer said. "He told me he was over here illegally and he didn't wanna be here. He was worried that he would get caught."

-- snip --

Palmer says at first, most came over on H-1B visas. These visas are for people with specialized talents or a level of technical ability that can't be found among American workers.

When asked if all the people had some special expertise that couldn't be found in the U.S., Palmer said, "Absolutely not. Not even close. Many of them is what we call freshers. People that would just come over, whoever they could get to come over. Whoever got accepted for a visa."

Many of the people brought in, in fact, didn't know what they were doing at all, Palmer said.

-- snip --

When the U.S. State Department began to limit the number of H-1B visas, Palmer says Infosys began using another type of visa, the B-1. The B-1 is meant for employees who are traveling to consult with associates, attend training or a convention. But Palmer says the employees were brought in not for meetings, but for full time jobs.

Palmer said the jobs were in "Everything from coding software to testing software to fixing software to installing."

[khelus]

You contradict yourself; if it were true that "US just cannot do without them" then it would be a moot point what the industry would or wouldn't "let happen." It'd be like saying, "I won't let the sun rise in the west tomorrow!" ROFL

[khelus]

Cronos,

Once again kudos on your posts. I'll give you a personal example of the costs of poor design and lack of scalability.

While working for a company that sold health insurance, I got a call at about 3 a.m. One of a series of batch program that produced new ID cards blew up. I took a look and told the guys in production to hold off on the ID cards until I got back to them.

What could have taken no more than half an hour to fix, test, and get to production took several hours because of p*ss poor design by the cheap and inexperienced.

Note: I could have done one small quick fix to the blown up program, and ID card production would than have functioned, but the ID cards produced would not have been accurate.

Accurate ID card production required changes in about a dozen places and several hours.

In addition to the time spent fixing the ID card batch stream, I spent several more hours explaining to various managers how delaying production for several hours and producing accurate ID cards was not only cheaper but better for the companies image.

The upshot: cheap inexperienced design cost an entire days labor instead of 1/2 hour labor.

[In fact with really good design, the program would never have blown up, but that is an entirely different story].

[ravager]

Hey dont Sheesh me until you have actually worked as a tech lead or PM. Those geeky bits of advantages/disadvantages you mention for different tools is never ever a deciding factor when considering the best tool to implement a certain operation.

Most organization have a Java and/or .Net team. For a while, I had a few people for Cobol only for troubleshooting and maintenance. For the given deptartmet budget I cant have an additional Cobol team for either application development or infrastructure work only because Cobol does batch jobs very well. Every single of our batch job was run using Java, ant, xml on a CI box and they did a fine job.

A tiny advantage here and here isnt worth a huge investment in a legacy system that comes with its own share of nightmares. You would know that only if you ever worked as a manager or tech lead.

[ravager]

check post #103

[ravager]

Your point being...... You are a much better software engineer then those inexperienced and cheap developers?

Were you involved in the designing/development of that system? I assume you weren't....

But then you took one look at 3am and figured out the whole problem in a system designed by inexperienced and cheap labour?

You say.... you would have done a small fix but that would have produced inaccurate ID cards. How exactly is that a "fix"?

And what was the design problem?

[combat_boots]

“This is happening every day in every sector of high-tech, and has been for not just years but decades.”

Yes.

One-fifth to one-tenth the pay, depending on function.

Oh. PayPal’s help desk is in the Philippines. How about that.

[Cronos]

Hey dont Sheesh me until you have actually worked as a tech lead or PM

I have. I'm now a program manager. And I've worked across not only web-based apps but mainframes, erp systems, bi systems, messaging connections between these and others.

A tiny advantage here and here isnt worth a huge investment in a legacy system that comes with its own share of nightmares -- you are incorrect. And I can assure you you are very incorrect. M/fs may be considered legacy but in enterprise batch data they rule.

Don't come here as a pm for a web-page and talk about that as if all apps should conform to that level of slap and dash.

[ravager]

“M/fs may be considered legacy but in enterprise batch data they rule”

When was the last time anyone invested a large amount of money to build a Cobol based enterprise level application? First answer that and then we will decide who rules what.

Program Manager? For real? You sound like a blog or forum writer for a programming website arguing over which language is superior. Most managers have more important things to worry about.

[khelus]

ravanger,

For someone who implies that they have experience as a manager in IT, you seem to lack some very basic understanding. [the kindest way I could phrase that.] Maybe that's why you are unable to evaluate and value experience in others or understand the use of appropriate tools for different tasks.

... But then you took one look at 3am and figured out the whole problem in a system designed by inexperienced and cheap labour? ...

As an experienced SE, when I saw the type of problem that blew up the one program, I was able to make an educated guess. Reviewing the code of subsequent programs verified that.

... You say.... you would have done a small fix but that would have produced inaccurate ID cards. How exactly is that a "fix"?...

Actually I said a 'fix' to the program that blew up would allow the one program and the remainder of the ID card batch stream to function. The basic point you chose to ignore is that code that functions [i.e. does not blow up] does not necessarily produce accurate results.

And what was the design problem?

Your turn. Make an educated guess. I'll tell you if you are correct.

[ravager]

So you are a manager who sits and writes programs?

[khelus]

After reading his posts, I would posit that Cronos is a manager who understands enough about the various tools and platforms used in IT to have a solid grasp of what is involved in producing accurate, dependable, scalable code using the most appropriate tool and professional for the platform and task at hand.

[JustSayNoToNannies]

US just cannot do without them

The article's insider whistleblower reports differently - can you offer a reason to believe you over him?

[khelus]

Re:“This is happening every day in every sector of high-tech, and has been for not just years but decades.”

Yes.

One-fifth to one-tenth the pay, depending on function.

Oh. PayPal’s help desk is in the Philippines. How about that.

Com'on you two. Don't know that globalization is all about harmonization of living standards on a global scale?

Of course never mentioned is the fine print that stipulates wealth is removed from the US middles class and distributed to workers in the third world, with a hefty fee collected by international corporations. Globalism is pure unmitigated communism in a business suit.

[Cronos]

yup. I have no use for a PM who has no knowledge of programming, no logic etc. Do I do programming on a daily basis for the code? no. But I do chip in when I can and I have no intention of dissipating my logical skills. I would suggest you do the same instead of thinking that “any intermediate programmer can do just as good a job” — your kind of thinking leads to spaghetti code at best..

[Cronos]

When was the last time anyone invested a large amount of money to build a Cobol based enterprise level application?

You have an Amex blue card?

[Cronos]

Most managers have more important things to worry about.

I worry about idiots who don't have any logical thinking capability. About my projects, no. I plan those so I don't have to worry about that. And, furthermore, thanks for trying to deviate from your statement Any young professional with some intermediate skill in any of the latest technology can very well get the job done. -- that is false.

[ravager]

Its funny you began your post with a cheap shot at me but you totally skipped the question I asked you......

Were you involved in the design and development of that system?

Without any prior involvement in the design or development of that system you talk of, you were asked to jump in at 3am in the morning to fix a major issue on a production environment at the eleventh hour?.....because of your extreme experience?

And then you took an “educated guess” as to what the problem could be ......and thats exactly what it turned out to be?

And then you say that you could have done a small “fix” but that would have produced inaccurate id cards. You dont have a separate test team who can easily figure out you just did a kludge?

And now you want me to explain the design problem?

I have worked with all kinds of people for a long time in the industry. I maybe lacking in a lot of things but I am not lacking in figuring out when someone is bullshiting me.

[Cronos]

though let me also point out that i've met extremely good programmers who were from the US, India, Ireland, Russia, Romania, Poland, Italy, etc. etc. --> and I've also met extremely shitty programmers who were from the US, India, Ireland etc. etc.

In this particular case, Infosys brought in H1Bs as they need to have a certain number of bodies in the States for their clients. But as the relationship grows, they would convince their customers to move everything offshore -- it would be cheaper for the customers and cheaper for Infosys.

[khelus]

... Were you involved in the design and development of that system?

no

Without any prior involvement in the design or development of that system you talk of, you were asked to jump in at 3am in the morning to fix a major issue on a production environment at the eleventh hour?.....because of your extreme experience?

yes

And then you took an “educated guess” as to what the problem could be ......and thats exactly what it turned out to be?

yes

And then you say that you could have done a small “fix” but that would have produced inaccurate id cards. You dont have a separate test team who can easily figure out you just did a kludge?

As any logical experienced PM would know, That route would have taken days, not hours, before accurate ID cards could have been mailed out. Ever hear of customer service??

And now you want me to explain the design problem?

Not until you make and educated guess, i.e. if you are capable.

[ravager]

Have I heard of customer service? My 8 year old nephew has heard of customer service.

Look mister.....your nonsense story has broken the BS meter. Don't waste my time.