Posted on 01/26/2012 9:34:45 PM PST by WilliamIII
Mitt Romney's tax returns reveal that the Republican presidential candidate does something fewer Americans do these days: He tithes.
Romney's 2009 and 2010 tax returns, released Tuesday, show that he and his wife, Ann, gave 10 percent of their income, about $4.1 million, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The couple reported income of about $43 million for the two years.
LDS church members must tithe to participate in temple rituals. Nearly 80 percent of Mormons tithe, a poll released this month by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life shows.
While tithing among Mormons is high, it is at an all-time low – less than 3 percent – among many faith groups, according to an October report by Empty Tomb, a Christian research organization. The theology behind tithing is also being questioned, with many saying the mandate to contribute 10 percent is not biblical.
Tithing has its roots in the Old Testament – "Bring all the tithes to the storehouse," from the book of Malachi – and means one-tenth of income.
"The New Testament says a Christian is saved under grace and it does not teach tithing," said Russell Kelly who argues against it on his website, www.shouldthechurchteachtithing. com. "A lot of people would rather stay home than go to church and hear about it. All it does is make them feel as if they're cursed for not giving 10 percent."
(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...
The need for evangelization is a matter that different congregations have different philosophies about. Some think along the lines that it is impossible to force God’s hand, so are very laid back about it. Some think along the lines that at least prayer if not further activities (like arguing with unbelievers) can increase God’s action to bring salvation, which makes them very impatient with the first set. Some take a mediating view that while they can’t force God to save anyone he has not planned to save, they can certainly choose to become part of the process and be blessed for sharing the gospel whether or not anything happens.
One should give with cheer (the word in Greek is actually hilaros, which root has been borrowed into English words like “hilarity” and “exhilaration”), and I think a lot of that is the hope that God will use it to do good things with, in which things you can then take joy along with God. You might not see them on earth, but you will certainly see them from heaven.
Where did I say one shouldn’t give to support churches or pastors? I thought my post was clear. I do not feel led to donate to build pretty buildings, but others may. Also, it’s clear that servants of Christ, i.e. pastors and missionaries, need support. That doesn’t mean that I’m under some legal, scriptural obligation to donate exactly 10% of my income to those specific causes. Pastors who obligate their flocks under Old Testament 10% tithe laws might as well compel them be circumcised, too.
I find most people who attack “tithing” as pharasitical, or claim it’s an old-testament teaching that has no place in Christianity, are almost always people who don’t give 10%, and often argue they do “other things”.
A church generally has a building. It has to be paid for. They have a pastor, he needs a salary, he has to buy food for his family. There’s heat, there’s musical instruments and probably a sound system. There’s supplies for sunday school.
There’s missionaries that need support, that need to be fed and clothed and given shelter while they share the gospel.
Now, if you want to go BE the missionary, I guess that’s a good reason not to tithe, since you won’t have any money. But how else but tithing do you expect your pastor to be paid, your church to be maintained?
There aren’t many people who use their freedom from the law of tithing to give more than 10% to their church, or to church-related things.
I do understand that it is probably easier to tithe when you’ve done it all your life, because you can’t miss what you never had.
Well this is a matter that is under local congregational control to various degrees. Ask the church treasurer what the offerings go for, if you are in the least concerned. Some keep the facilities up through sweat equity and specific donations (e.g. somebody gave my church a new door when the old one was just about worn out — and someone else donated their time to install it) as well as through offering moneys.
In re: the church building, in our culture, to have a presence in the community you need to have a physical presence.
Were we to have no church buildings the church would not be functioning very well. For example, we are to worship God together. Can’t do it in a house if you are overwhelming the neighbors with parking issues, not everyone can fit in the living room, etc. You could go out to a farm for worship but then there is a lot of traveling and few know you’re there if they want to join you, which is the point since it is through the preaching that most are saved -
so while I don’t want to pay for sold gold trim or diamond chandeliers, I think it is appropriate for a congregation to keep a clean and kept up building with parking and bathrooms and running water, reasonable heat and a/c, accessibility, garbage pickup and the like to facilitate worship and the plain old physical space needed for the declaration of the gospel and various legitimate ministries.
If you limit yourself to meeting in homes you keep yourselves small, and offend neighbors with parking issues, noise, trash etc. Not a good witness.
Of course if your church is small and a house works, there is nothing wrong with that. I am just saying, a building is not an extravagance in my book.
I'd bet you'd find a lot of Christian Freepers do this, on a free will basis. Give what they can when they are doing well, or when they are doing poorly.
I’m yet to meet one of the Pastors you’re referring to. These pastors that you speak of, the ones who obligate their flocks to give 10%, do they kick people out who don’t pony up? I’d love an anecdote.
“If everyone shared your view there would be no churches or pastors to lead them and help those in need. God loves a cheerful giver, so I don’t think he really wants your money anyway...at least not right now.”
Well said, and I might add, God doesn’t NEED their money either. God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and His kingdom will be advanced whether any given individual chooses to participate or not.
That said, as a Bible-believing Christian, it seems to me that tithing was practiced even before the Mosaic law. Look at Abraham, who gave 10% to the high priest Melchizidek. Although not commanded in the New Testament, the idea of giving generously verses sparingly is certainly supported.
In my experience, tithing is the best financial decision my wife and I ever made. When we finally decided to do it regularly about 12 years ago, our finances turned around dramatically. Our income today is actually less than it was 15 years ago, but somehow God has seen us through it and at the end of the day, we still have more than enough money to meet our needs.
I think tithing is an expression of faith and submission to God that God will reward. Many Christians don’t practice it cause they obviously don’t see it that way. They only look at the momentary monetary sacrifice, and not at the fact that God is in control of ALL circumstances and can works things out so that you have fewer expenses/more income in the future if you’re faithful in this practice.
Bottom line-I guess it really comes down to faith in God. Either a person has it or they don’t. Tithing is just one of the ways to show you truly do trust in Him.
I haven’t met a pastor who would kick someone out for not donating 10%, but I’ve met several who spend a great deal of time talking about money. On the other hand, I’ve never met a Christian who was oblivious to the fact that churches need donations to survive.
I’m making the point that legalism, a strict requirement to donate a percentage of income, is contrary to New Testament scripture. What do you think Christ would have said about it? He probably would have said ALL of our time and money is the Lord’s and should be treated as such. I can’t give you a precise rule for giving, because there isn’t one. We aren’t subject to the law, and I don’t like it when Christians try to burden their fellow believers with such rules and regulations.
lquist1: “Tithing is just one of the ways to show you truly do trust in Him.”
I’m not going to disagree with that. Again, my point isn’t that giving money to the church is wrong. You felt compelled to do so. Who am I to tell you otherwise? What I am saying is that people who tithe shouldn’t attempt to place that burden on others (not saying you did). Guilt tripping your brother or sister in Christ because they aren’t giving a certain percentage of income to the church, especially when they can give in so many different ways (per scripture), is wrong.
It sounds to me like Mormons practice legalism. That’s contrary to scripture (one of many ways they fall afoul of the Bible). Also, where does it say giving money to take care of family doesn’t count as using it for God’s purposes?
I keep writing on this thread, because some Christians seem intent to write “Rules and Regulations for Proper Giving.” Paul challenged Peter over this line of thought. We are not subject to circumcision, 10% tithes, food limits, etc.
The Cheerful Giver
6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully[a] will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Excellent post.
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Scripture sums it up well. Plus, nowhere in that does it say $ = giving. What we give, $ or otherwise, is between us and God. I think I’m properly interpreting scripture here, but if someone disagrees, I’d like to hear their point of view.
As in that famous movie about the 10 Suggestions? It says "commandments" in my copy. Check Malachi 3:8-10.
If you believe that God gives you everything, you show gratitude by giving something back. Give what is in your heart
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I do tithe from a very limited income but the fact is, you cannot outgive the Lord. In addition to tithing I find other ways to give and somehow, blessings rain down on me and I lack for nothing.
Last Sunday I woke up and a particular need was on my mind. I wanted to provide testaments to a group that was in need of them. When I arrived for services I found a representitive from the Gideons was there to speak and I knew I could order the testaments from him. After services, I figured out how much the number of testaments would cost but as I wrote the check I was compelled to write it for a greater amount. On Monday I got a phone call telling me that some unexpected funds were coming my way. I do believe that God knew of the need, knew the Gideon was going to speak that day and that funds were coming to me to more than pay for what I ordered. He put the desire in my heart to carry out his will. I love and serve the Lord and am so grateful for all he has given me.
So why do Mormons tithe and (according to the article) only three percent of other churches do? Mormons give their Bishops an envelope with their money and they don’t pass around a plate where everyone can see you lift your arm high as you put money in.
I guess Mormons understand the principal: “givers gain”. I always get more from money I give. What I contribute always comes back to me. Maybe non Mormon churches should teach that principal.
If YOU were convinced that to make it to the HIGHEST level of Heaven, where GOD actually resides, a 'full' tithe is REQUIRED, by GOD! - you'd do it TOO!!!
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