Well, bye.
Posted on 10/13/2010 3:04:13 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan
On consideration of the Petition for Extraordinary Relief in the Nature of a Writ of Mandamus and Application for a Stay of Proceedings, the petition is DENIED.
(Excerpt) Read more at caaflog.com ...
Not true. The state requires such evidence to warrant issuing a certificate, but that doesn’t mean it’s always prima facie evidence.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2008/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017.htm
Until we see a ‘Certificate’ not a ‘Certification’ and one that’s been ‘Accepted by the State’ we don’t really know anything.
There is one other certification of live birth that I have seen that said “date filed by’ and didn’t come from Polarik and it was filed 53 days after the Date of Birth, and the Hour of Birth said 6:00 pm like it was filed by affidavit.
Yet nothing on that ‘Certification’ indicated anything unusual and nothing was noted. Unfortunately I don’t know the origin of that ‘Certification’ either so I have to basically chalk it up to nothing concrete.
Then you shouldn't have pinged me to your post calling El Sordo and Danae liars. We are where we are.
Doesn't mean Hawaii is still not lying.
Biased? Supposedly Danae and I are on the same side of the NBC and BC issue?
Who hasn’t received hate emails if they’ve tried to research this issue openly?
Please I didn’t send them to her. Not my responsibility.
Geez. Nice attempt to guilt trip me. Not working.
“You are stating the documents presented by Danae are false..do you realize..she has received hate emails since the documents were first posted.
Your biased opinions will probably increase them.”
Fair enough. Bye.
The State of Hawaii has not verified anything. The statement is “original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State DOH verifying....”
The original vital records (plural) verify (swear) that Obama was born in Hawaii. Fukino herself verifies nothing. She specifically does NOT vouch for the legal status of what is “on file”.
And in fact, the responses I have gotten from the HDOH (regarding WHICH birth index the birth index records for Obama are taken from, since they have a separate index for delayed BC’s, Certificates of Hawaiian Birth, pending, etc) are Glomarized responses - showing that the HDOH is claiming that the legal status of the records they have is considered confidential.
IOW, when they say they have birth index data, according to their responses to me, they are making no claim regarding whether the records they have are legally valid. All they are saying is that they have a piece of paper somewhere in their office which has both the word “birth” and that person’s name. Period.
see the recent article by post and email re HI elections violating foia bees for candidate certification reecords?
Your scenarios depend on El Sordo being “mistaken”, which is a short hop away from what MT said. The way that El Sordo explained the situation does not make sense with the documents we see. Whether there is a good explanation for that depends on what El Sordo saw, which Danae can post for us and which should answer the questions. That’s probably the first step that needs to happen. The sooner it can happen, the better, to prevent any of us from saying things we’ll later wish we could take back.
"Mistaken" only about when the toner transfer took place. Not "mistaken" that it did, in fact, take place. It's more than a short hop from "mistaken" to "liar."
Had MissTickly simply voiced her doubts and asked for evidence from Danae, I'd have no problem with her post. Instead, she indicted El Sordo's and Danae's character with her accusation. I have a serious problem with that.
“I didn’t ping you, you said the above to me.”
Exactly. It’s called paying attention.
It also might be good to have a photo of the BC copy and the receipt side by side, held up to the light or where both are partly on top of the envelope and partly on the table. That would help us know the thickness of the papers.
Butter, I believe you are mistaken in many of your assumptions on this issue. But have I ever called you a liar?
No. I believe your motives are pure.
That’s the issue here. MissTickly impugned their character and their motives. It’s not acceptable to me. I wouldn’t stand for it if someone did it to you either.
Danae posted photographs of them side by side on the table. The paper looks the same. The paper looks different only in the photographs where the edge of the receipt is lifted by the envelope.
Well, bye.
The State of Hawaii has not verified anything. The statement is “original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State DOH verifying....”
The original vital records (plural) verify (swear) that Obama was born in Hawaii. Fukino herself verifies nothing. She specifically does NOT vouch for the legal status of what is “on file”.
And in fact, the responses I have gotten from the HDOH (regarding WHICH birth index the birth index records for Obama are taken from, since they have a separate index for delayed BC’s, Certificates of Hawaiian Birth, pending, etc) are Glomarized responses - showing that the HDOH is claiming that the legal status of the records they have is considered confidential.
IOW, when they say they have birth index data, according to their responses to me, they are making no claim regarding whether the records they have are legally valid. All they are saying is that they have a piece of paper somewhere in their office which has both the word “birth” and that person’s name. Period.
The people to whom Dr. Fukino’s media releases and sworn testimony before the state legislature’s Judiciary and Government Operations Committee matter: judges and justices and members of Congress understand exactly what she meant and what Governor Lingle meant when she said: “It’s been established, he was born here” in her radio interview on this topic.
From Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children’s 100th Anniversay Magazine: “Nearly half of Oahu’s babies are born at Kapi‘olani. Many public figures, civic and business leaders can claim their birthplace here. In fact, our 44th President Barack Obama commended “the excellence of Kapi‘olani Medical Center—the place of my birth.” He added, “Hawaii has always been a home to me.”
http://www.kapiolanigift.org/doc/centennial-magazine.pdf
Back to the thread, comment at # 1,858.
About the other ‘Date Filed By’ COLBs from Polarik
[Thanks again, Miss Tickly.]
Fair enough. What is actually on the back of the BC copy would be necessary to confirm the accuracy of the statement.
Just to make sure we all have the story clear, this is what El Sordo said:
“OK, jesting aside. It’s pretty obvious to me that she got it from Hawaii. On the back side of the copy of her long form there is a readable transfer of ink from the receipt forming a mirror image of where they had been in contact.
It seem reasonable and clear to me that the two documents had been folded together soon after printing and had some time to get to know each other.”
the 0’s defenders here will b the ones who come to our homes wearing brown shirts to try and drag us off to jail. they love the usurper
You may know that the “any applicant” is Danae and others like her are “the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record” as they have met the “ “subject to the requirements” of HRS 338-18” “ for copies to their long form Hawaiian birth certificates, and to otherwise deny them, is a violation of Hawaiian law stipulated in HRS §338-13.
Sigh... This is what happens when I finally get a day to sleep in?
It’s like we’re Spanish partisans or something...
OK, where to begin...
IIRC the primary reason that Danae requested a copy of her long form was to set to rest to argument that long forms were indeed still available. She can speak for herself on that matter though.
For the record, from the start I believed Danae. It’s been my understanding all along that long forms were still available upon request. Mr. Texan , sir. You have my permission to share my Freepmail comments from that day.
Anyhow...
I saw what I saw and I stand by my statement.
Danae had not noticed the ink transfer (ink, toner, whatever. I’m old.) until I brought it to her attention.
I noted this specifically because it was, to me, clear evidence that this wasn’t just printed out that day as Curiosity alleged could have happened.
As far as the type faces and stamped dates and what not? I don’t see why any of that fricking matters. Danae’s document was from many years after BHO’s. I wouldn’t expect that kind of correlation. And it strikes me as unreasonable to indulge in comparisons on the matter. I do not think that any of those had any bearing on why she requested her long form.
As for folding, here’s the funny thing... Danae and I sat there and tried to figure out how folding them would get it to be as it was. My conclusion was that one document was folded up, then the other was inserted into the tail of the first document and folded around it. It struck me as odd, but it explained the locations of the transfer. I assumed that it happened this way rather than when the two lay together on a desk. But perhaps this could have happened as well, it just wasn’t the method I thought of at the time. I wish I had, then we could have seen how well the two lined up that way. Danae can still do this, of course.
Regardless of how it was made, the image transfer was there.
To reiterate, I noted the image transfer specifically because I wanted to address the accusation that the document could have been printed out that day. Danae and I did not realize we lived in the same town until five o’clock that evening. We met at the local grocery store at 7.
Take it for what you will.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go change litter boxes.
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