Posted on 04/22/2009 7:12:17 AM PDT by AmericanHunter
When Texas Gov. Rick Perry floated the idea of secession if the federal government continues to pursue an aggressive tax-and-spend policy, the mainstream media, as well as the political establishment, cringed.
MSNBC’s Chris Matthews called talk of secession “whack-job stuff,” calling Mr. Perry a “bozo” and telling the Texas governor, “You don’t have a choice buddy.” Mr. Matthews’ colleague, Rachael Maddow, said Mr. Perry was “flirting to the point of adultery” by talking about secession, while commentator Thomas Frank reinforced the disconnect between the media and many Americans.
“What you’re seeing … what is one of the surprising things about these tea parties … surprising to people like you and me, is how mainstream extremism is in the Republican Party and the conservative movement,” Mr. Frank, author of Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule, told Ms. Maddow.
But is the idea of secession a foreign concept to the American experience? Is talk of secession automatically treasonous? Is any secessionist movement doomed to be defined by the Civil War and exiled to the political wilderness?
“I think the biggest surprise to me was the outrage expressed by an individual who even thinks ... along these lines,” U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, said yesterday on CNN’s American Morning.
“Because I heard people say, well, ‘this was treason,’ they say, and ‘this was un-American.’ But don’t they remember how we came in to our being? We used secession. We seceded from England. So it’s a very good principle. It’s a principle of a free society. It’s a shame we don’t have it anymore.”
Dr. Paul, who ran a hard fought grassroots campaign for the Republican nomination in 2008, argued the principle of secession is one that protects the union rather than threatens it.
“I argue that if you have the principle of secession, our federal government wouldn’t be as intrusive into state affairs. And to me, that would be very good,” Dr. Paul said. “We as a nation have endorsed secession all along. I mean, think of all the secession of the countries and the Republicans from the Soviet system. We were delighted. We love it. And yet we get hysterical over this.”
Critics of the coverage of the secession comment argue the media is trying to paint the Republican Party as extreme. They say Mr. Perry was not advocating secession, but rather saying the federal government could cause its resurrection.
“We got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that?” Mr. Perry asked.
While the notion of secession was floated by Mr. Perry, he was not expressly advocating Texas leave the Union. Rather, the Texas governor used the idea in a manner Dr. Paul believes is historically accurate — to send a warning shot across the bow of a federal government that is encroaching on state’s rights and individual liberties.
Last week’s tea parties exposed a major rift in the country, and some are concerned the Obama administration does not understand the degree of dissent that is fomenting outside the Beltway. And despite panning by the political establishment, the majority of the nation viewed tea party dissent in a favorable light.
Fifty-one percent of Americans had a favorable view of the nationwide rallies, while 32 percent responded their view was very favorable, according to a poll released by Rasmussen Reports. A third of the nation had an unfavorable view with 15 percent unsure.
But among the nation’s “Political Class,” Rasmussen found just 13 percent held a favorable assessment and zero percent held a very favorable view of the nationwide protest. This disconnect, according to Dr. Paul, is a major part of the problem.
“People are angry. And if we don’t sense that, we don’t know it’s actually what’s going on there,” the Texas congressman said. Dr. Paul said the worst is yet to come because secession will achieve a greater legitimacy as the country struggles.
“When the dollar collapses and the federal government can’t fulfill any of its promises, what if they send you dollars and they don’t work,” Dr. Paul said. “People are just going to — they’re not going to have a violent cessation. They’re just going to ignore the federal government because they will be inept.”
They were a sovereign nation that joined the U.S. under treaty agreement. They had a higher order status in negotiating with the U.S. because they weren’t simply and already “territories” of the U.S. before becoming a state. They had been a *sovereign nation* even before the United States existed and even before the colonies even existed on this continent. So, they were here a lot longer than either the U.S. or the British or the French or the Spanish — on this continent.
Thus, if anyone has the right to secede from the U.S. they are *at the top of the list* — in front of anyone else’s rights to do so... LOL...
Ping of interest.
i don't HAVE a working TV, as i refuse to pay well over 100.oo a month for cable.
i will happily pay you for your trouble, if you have a set.
if you have not, you might want to read #144 for what my tribe is planning. i think we'll do FINE!
free dixie,sw
They’ve stated that they will allow all that want to stay to do so, but then they become part of that country and not of the United States. But, at the same time, they also expect to have cross-border traffic and allow people to go back and forth (like you would to any other country, like England or France or Canada or you-name-it. I believe they will do “business” with people in the U.S.
Probably they’ll fund a lot of what they do, initially with casinos... LOL...
As far as the status of the people there in the Republic of Lakotah, being that they are not Lakotah in the first place, I’m not sure. I would think that the initial people who would decide on the fate of the Republic of Lakotah would be the Lakotah themselves, and then later other people would be incorporated into the citizenship as they swore allegiance to the Republic of Lakotah. (but that’s just my guess on this last part...).
[came back in for a few minutes and saw a few comments... :-) ...]
So, I hope you’re supporting the Republic of Lakotah in seceding from the United States. It’s been an on-going thing that they’ve been trying to work through and have not managed it yet.
It’s something that all FReepers should support, in the same way that we would support any other state in seceding. This will provide a “modern-day precedent” for all other states, by helping the Lakotah get their sovereign nation status back again.
I don’t have cable, either, but it’s being recorded for me. You can watch it all on the PBS website. Follow the links here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2233470/posts
We Shall Remain - PBS American Experience
Order it off the PBS website
I’m woefully ignorant of this movement by the Lakota. It is interesting, in the 1800’s a group of Cherokee wished to become a state of the Union, but of course that didn’t go over with the US government or most of the ‘tribe’.
No matter what the Constitution is within the land of the United States, when the U.S. is negotiating with another sovereign nation — and the treaty is agreed upon, then (if it’s necessary) the U.S. will change the laws in the country to accord to the treaty obligations (if there is a conflict), otherwise the treaty is not agreed upon.
What happens between nations is a “higher order” than what the Constitution says. The proof that this is so — is that the U.S. has modified its laws to accord to treaties and other such obligations outside of this country. And the U.S. will continue to do that, as it continues negotiating treaties and agreements with foreign and “extra-national bodies”.
I don’t doubt that the U.S. will be changing some laws in this country to accord to treaties that will come up in the Obama Administration, too.
But to the point of the Lakotah, they negotiated as a sovereign nation to another sovereign nation and now they state that the treaty was not honored or upheld, so they are trying to dissolve it and be their own sovereign nation again. The Congress just wants to “buy them off” and have them give up the rights of being their own nation, but they don’t want to do that. So, they’ve rejected the money that Congress allocated to them, and it’s just sitting in an account right now, gathering interest.
So, I say to support the Lakotah to become that sovereign nation that they were, and have them be completely and totally outside of the U.S. and have their own nation back again.
Glad to hear that... It should *certainly* be done with the Lakotah, as they have the absolute strongest argument of all of them, in that regard.
Well, I think we should revisit all those sovereign Indian Nations (i.e., the issue of their sovereignty) and give them back their native territories and have them be totally independent of the United States. It’s time to give back the territories to the Indians who were here first... before we were...
So, if anyone gets to secede from the U.S. the Indians should be the first ones...
Time to go again... LOL... see y’all later...
“It’s time to give back the territories to the Indians who were here first... before we were...”
Really? I agree. Now show me those Indians who were here first....It is NOT you or I, their descendants. At some point, those of us alive today have to stop paying for the sins of our fathers. If you demand land owned by citizens today give it up to others who were never harmed you advocate the same horror that was imposed on the real vicitims LONG ago. Two wrongs will never make right what happened to the Indian.
I want the headdress. Orange, yellow, and black would go well with my wardrobe ;-)
Why would I, or anyone, support something they have no personal stake in? Let them come to me and convince me to throw in with them and actively, passionately support them. Or perhaps convince me to not actively oppose their secession.
Growing the idea in peoples minds is part of the process. Getting them to be passionate and eventually radical in their beliefs is a natural course of “change”. We are already on our way. The marxists in this government and through out this nation are not going to pull back, and that will lend itself to the further radicalization of free men.
You cant stop it... The marxists wont stop it... We dont want to stop it... It WILL happen... Regardless of whether this Indian tribe secedes or not.
You know... I bet we could talk this tribe into supporting our efforts to absolve ourselves of the chains placed on us by the marxists. ;)
Nothing is more un-American than secession.
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