Dean on the electoral college system: 'get rid of it'

The Valley News ^ | 05/08/07 | John Gregg

[TheBethsterNH]

Dean on Electoral College System: ‘Get Rid of It' By John P. Gregg Valley News Staff Writer Hanover -- Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean yesterday said he favors replacing the Electoral College system with a tally whereby American presidents are elected by the popular vote.

“I think it's outlived its usefulness,” Dean said in response to a question on the subject during a talk to a government class at Dartmouth College. “It was an invention for a time 200 years ago. I think that times have changed and we ought to get rid of it, one way or the other.”

The Maryland Legislature last month approved a plan that would direct its 10 electoral votes to be cast for the winner of the national popular vote, rather than the victor in Maryland. The plan, however, would take effect only if states forming a majority of the country's 538 electoral votes followed suit.

Several smaller, rural states have historically voiced support for the present system, which was established in the Constitution, saying it allows them to retain an important role in presidential elections. Presidential campaigns must devote attention to small swing states such as West Virginia or New Hampshire, which has just 4 electoral votes, under the current system. Only two presidents have been elected without winning the popular vote, notably George W. Bush in the bitterly contested 2000 election.

“I'm torn about this because I come from a small state. If it passes, you won't see a lot of presidential candidates out, after the primary season is over, in the small states,” Dean said of moving to a popular vote for president. “But you will see presidential candidates of both parties in Texas and California. And I think you need to do that. Right now, Democrats don't go to Texas, and Republicans don’t go to California. That’s not so good for the country.”

In telephone interviews after Dean's comments, the idea won the backing of two top Democrats in Vermont, where Dean served as governor before running for president in 2004.

Vermont Secretary of State Deb Markowitz said the 2000 election, in which Democrat Al Gore lost despite winning the popular vote, is “problematic for democracy.”

“I'm with Howard Dean in that I think, in this day and age, we really cross state borders, we move from one state to the next, and there's not this same kind of sense that the interests of one state are very different from the interests of others, which the Electoral College was designed to protect,” she said.

“I think it would help democracy, and I'm not worried that it would dilute Vermont's role,” added Senate President Pro Tempore Peter Shumlin, a Putney Democrat.

Across the border in New Hampshire, state Republican Party Chairman Fergus Cullen said he doesn't have strong feelings about the subject but noted that most of the “hue and cry” to abolish the Electoral College system is coming from Democrats.

“I do think that historically the Electoral College is a bit of an anachronism. That being said, I also think it has served our nation well, like so many things our founders set up,” Cullen said.

At the Dartmouth class on comparative politics, Dean fielded about 20 questions during his hour-long appearance.

Dean said:

* He didn't think the New Hampshire primary's influence on presidential politics was being eroded by the front-loading of multiple primaries on Feb. 5, shortly after the Granite State is expected to hold its vote.

“Judging by the number of presidential candidates you've had here, and how often they've come, I don’t think New Hampshire is in any danger of losing its influence. In fact, I think the front-loading movement to Feb. 5 is actually going to increase New Hampshire's influence, because I think the front four states are essentially going to set the tone,” he said.

* Historically, only voters in Oregon and Vermont had been driven at the polls by environmental concerns, but Gore's focus on climate change in the movie An Inconvenient Truth had catalyzed the issue.

“This election is going to be very interesting, because concern over global warming has begun to go to the top echelons of what people worry about,” Dean said.

* The newly elected president of France, conservative Nicolas Sarkozy, would be seen as “a moderate Democrat over here.”

“I'm not joking,” Dean said. “I think we ought to give Sarkozy a chance. The French people have spoken. We don't know a lot about him, but we know he's bright, he’s apparently supportive of America, which is certainly a welcome change from President Chirac, and let’s just see how this works.”

* While he doesn't believe the Second Amendment gives each individual the right to bear arms, he also rejected the notion of national gun control laws.

“I come from a state that doesn't have any gun laws, except that there's no shooting deer from a car -- they don't think that’s fair,” Dean quipped. “My views on guns are that every state is so different, then why not let the people of each state decide how much or how little gun control they want. I don't see how you can have a national gun control law, because one size doesn’t fit all.”

After the class, students said they were pleased to have a new view of Dean.

Evan Nogay, a freshman football player from West Virginia, said he had formed his opinion of Dean as “erratic” from the televised “scream” speech the Vermont Democrat made to supporters after the Iowa caucuses in 2004. “I was incredibly impressed with him in general,” Nogay said of Dean yesterday.

Lisa Baldez, the government professor whose class hosted Dean, said the format had fit well with the course's focus on revolutionary change.

“There was something about the classroom … that kind of allowed him to engage the issues more deeply. He answered 20 questions, and he provided really thoughtful answers. I was really pleased,” Baldez said.

There was one issue, however, that Dean didn't discuss. Though he wasn't asked about the movement to impeach President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, which has consumed Vermont activists in recent months, Dean ducked the issue when asked by a reporter as he was leaving.

“I'm not going to comment on that,” Dean said.

[madison10]

Well, yeah, of course he wants to get rid of it. Why is this even news?

[justiceseeker93]

The real reason why Dean wants to go to a national popular vote system is that in a situation like 2000, it is a lot easier to steal a popular vote pluarality with fraud - as the Democrats did - than it is to steal the election in the electoral college - which the Democrats couldn't quite do.

That's because, under a polpular vote system, the 'Rats could more efficiently concentrate their fraud operations in large cites in states in which they would win handily regardless. Under the electoral college system, such extra phony votes have no effect on the outcome, whereas under a national popular vote system they would.

[IamConservative]

I think that times have changed and we ought to get rid of it, one way or the other.

Sure doesn't hold the constitution in very high regard does he? Any other parts of it you find inconvenient Dr. Dean?

[penowa]

"I'm sure that he feels the same way about the Constitution."

He and the rest of the Democrats certainly do with their theory of a "living" Constitution, better known as NO Constitution or make it up as it suits your needs to remain in power.

[Red Badger]

“The People” tend to make popular decisions.

Another thing is, the Dems know that over the next few election cycles, 3rd party candidates like the Greens will make it ever more difficult for Dems to get a majority in the big E-states. They tend to draw more from the Dems ranks than the Reps. If a major 3rd party candidate pops up from the Left, they are toast...........

[Badeye]

Interestingly, that was the first suggestion of the freshman Senator from New York upon her winning the seat in 2000.

Dean knows leftwingnuts can’t win a general election cycle as long as the electoral college exists.

[newcthem]

I agree........the majority of Americans would support getting rid of Howard Dean......WAAAAAAY before getting rid of the electoral college.
One being an American institution, The other should be institutionalized.

[Dilbert San Diego]

Ya, what does he mean “one way or the other”????

The proper way would be for him to call for a constitutional amendment to abolish the electoral college. Since the electoral college is written right into the Constitution, it can’t be abolished without an amendment.

I wish he would be honest enough to say that. Perhaps it’s an inconvenient truth to some people that the electoral college is in the Constitution, and not just a law that can be changed by Congress.

[justiceseeker93]

Dean seems to forget the clever manipulation of the electoral college system was how Clinton won in the 1990's.

Clever manipulation of Ross Perot is a more accurate explanation.

[RC2]

Yup, yup, yup............get rid of something that has worked for over 200 years in this country. If they can’t win legally, change the laws. This system was set up to stop those that were dangerous from ever holding the office of President.

[justiceseeker93]

One being an American institution, the other should be institutionalized.

LOL!

[BnBlFlag]

The Electoral College is one of the few remaining Bulwarks of our original Republic. The Dims want to get rid of it to further their Socialistic goals.
They are nefarious creatures beyond description.

[Cletus.D.Yokel]

While that may be true, the future may not prove these cities as monolithic “bastions of the Democrat Party”.

Ultimately, scrapping the Electoral College system places the States subservient to the National institution known as government.

It destroys any semblance of Federalism we may currently have.

[bamahead]

They know if the Electoral System is scrapped, the President will be elected by NYC,Boston,Chicago,LA,Miami,Houston,Seattle,SF,and NOLA.........

Yes, that bears repeating. That is *exactly* their plan. All one has to do is look at a map like this to understand it.


Even though there's a sea of red, much of that is land and less populous than those huge cities. But the idea of Representative Government, which liberals fail to grasp, is that a President must be elected to serve the needs and values people of *all* regions, not just the huge sprawling urban areas (ie: mostly welfare cest pools).

Dean's plan would guarantee a Government only representative to approximately 30% of the country, geographically. The rest of us don't matter.

[beckysueb]

“I think it's outlived its usefulness,” Dean said in response to a question on the subject during a talk to a government class at Dartmouth College. “It was an invention for a time 200 years ago. I think that times have changed and we ought to get rid of it, one way or the other.”

I just wonder what he means by one way or the other. Scary! It is more useful now then ever. We would have NY, LA and Chicago electing our president. Very scary.

[Right Cal Gal]

Funny how when Gore lost Florida but won by 100,000 votes in 2000, all the “prominent” Dems muttered and stomped to get rid of the Electoral College, and then the matter died. They shut up in 2004 because there was no way (although some idiots in Ohio tried) they would convince the American public that Kerry was president when Bush beat him by 3.5 million votes. Methinks Screamin’ Dean is worried that yet again states will go red in conservatives favor?

[the OlLine Rebel]

“Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean yesterday said he favors replacing the Electoral College system with a tally whereby American presidents are elected by the popular vote.”

Thereby instituting mob rule, and the essential disenfranchisement of areas that don’t have the same mindset as heavily populated areas.

The latter would never get their way and revolution would be afoot.

This is why Eastern Shore people in MD threatened “secession” several years ago from the whole of MD - the lightly populated conservative area is getting sick of always having to deal with Balto-DC mindset because they “rule” the state.

[John123]

Vermont Secretary of State Deb Markowitz said the 2000 election, in which Democrat Al Gore lost despite winning the popular vote, is “problematic for democracy.”

Ok.. two things:

United States is NOT a democracy. It is a republic.

The founders of our Constitution was absolutely against mob rule (think French Revolution).

In fact, there is NOTHING in our Constitution giving anybody the right to vote in a federal election. I think the founders really wanted the House of Representatives to elect our President...

[WhiteGuy]

Hmmmmm.....

Here is an idea.................

Why not allow the voters of a state vote for “electors” rather than for president??????

Isn’t that what is happening anyway?

[justiceseeker93]

...the RATS understand that they can't win under the system established by our Founding Fathers.

Not quite correct. They could win under the electoral college system - as they have done many times in the past - but it's a lot tougher for them the way it is now.