Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?

vanity | April 21, 2007 | Jim Robinson

[Jim Robinson]

We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.

One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.

All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.

FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?

Do you really expect me to do that?

[mutley]

There are plenty of real debates that we could have, we don’t need to make them up. There is a lot of time to debate the General election starting in about a year. Right now, we need a nominee first, and so do the liberals.

You are of course, absolutely correct. But this thread has become ugly posting, for ugly posting's sake. Try to find the humor in it. That's what I do. It has no value otherwise. This thread should have been terminated last night. But since it hasn't, I'll continue to have fun with it.

[calcowgirl]

One or two people are posting opinions. You can’t turn that into “the forum is now saying.”

THAT kind of stuff is what generates the need for glaciers. :-)

[Spyder]

You lost me in your argument. I only built on your example of a woman calling her newly discovered pregnancy a “baby.” That is completely subjective as well. “Potential” isn’t sufficient to convince me. There’s a potential for a lot of things that never happen. We remove people from life support when there’s no brain function. An embryo doesn’t have any brain function until 2-3 months gestation.

[Kevmo]

I agree. And I like IJ’s post for exactly the same reason. One clue would be that if the post gets tagged from both sides of the debate as a good anchor point, then that’s a real good one to read.

Looking through this thread, the answer to IJ’s question appears to be: Yes it is that hard for some.

[EternalVigilance]

*grin*

[rbmillerjr]

1)...I think we have good people who will never vote for Giuliani (I wont vote for him)

2)...I think we have good people who will vote for him if he gets the nomination ( I disagree but I see the rational thought and logic that goes into it)

3)...I think we have people that have lost friends to zotting that are attempting to disrupt FR.

FR is going to thrive regardless of what happens, 40 people, is small in overall numbers to this site’s total posters. I think the 1s and the 2s from above can have rational debate on FR and the majority want to work toward helping a conservative get the GOP nomination.

[Chena]

I agree with you on that. That’s why I wanted to hear answers to my questions from JR himself. I certainly wouldn’t want people to think that I was suggesting that they are all in lockstep with a couple of posters. That is not at all what I believe. BTW, I love your glacial humor. ;)

[BusterBear]

This whole 'you must vote for Rudy to keep Hillary out of the White House' is nothing but a more genteel translation of "Ja WOHL! You MUST vote for Chancellor Hitler, he is the ONLY one who can SAVE Germany!"

In times of crisis, it is a natural human tendency to want to vote for a 'strong leader' who will not only make the trains run on time, but who proclaims that he will be merciless against the enemy. But if that 'strong leader' has no moral scruples, no conscience, no principles beyond their own lust for power, then the cure will prove itself far worse than the disease.

I lived in NYC when Rudy Giuliani was mayor and I think you have made a very accurate assessment of his character. In fact, you have said it in a nutshell.

[monkapotamus]

[calcowgirl]

social conservatives which is the very litmus test that is the topic of this thread.

I suggest you read the topic again, and the early part of the thread. This post from Jim Robinson, for example:

Where did I ever say that social issues trump national security or that FR was a “social conservative” only site.

FR is a conservative site. We’re not just social conservative or just fiscal conservative. We are conservative period. I don’t think you can be a half conservative and half liberal. You’re either a conservative or your not. If you are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal you’re a liberal. If you are socially conservative but a fiscal liberal then you are a liberal. If you readily embrace and promote liberalism whether socially liberal or fiscally liberal, then you are a liberal. Giulianni is a liberal, socially and fiscally. Most likely, you are a liberal too. Giuliani’s support for taxpayer funded abortion and utter contempt for the constitution makes him a rotten to the core socialist.

FR is pro-God, pro-life, pro-liberty, pro-gun, pro-constitution, pro-private property, pro-individual rights, pro-national defense, pro-limited government, pro-limited spending, pro defense, pro sovereignty, pro-America, etc, etc. We are opposed to abortionism, feminism, socialism, big government, big spending, activist judges, run away government, corruption, authoritarianism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc.

And we are totally opposed to liberals running for office from the Republican party.

[mkjessup]

First Month
Vital organs of embryo are forming and the brain, brain stem and beginning of the spine are evident.

Fifth Week
Heart begins to beat and circulate blood; arm and leg buds emerge; brain, spinal cord, and nervous system are established.

Sixth Week
Digestive system is forming and arms and legs begin to grow.

Seventh Week
The umbilical cord joins the embryo to the placenta; long bones and internal organs are developing.

Second Month
Human face, arms, legs, fingers, toes, elbows, knees, eyelids and bone cells are forming.

Twelfth Week
Sex is distinguishable; fingers and toes are moving; teeth buds are present and the kidney and bladder form. Baby is 2-4” long and weighs one to two ounces.

Sixteenth Week
Baby moves and kicks, sleeps and wakes, swallows; hair forms, digestion becomes active; fetus is pink in color.

20 Weeks
Spurt in baby’s growth; internal organs are maturing; hair, eyebrows and lashes are present; baby increases storage of iron. Baby is 8-12” long and weighs 1/2 pound.

24 Weeks
Baby’s skin is wrinkled; covered by lanugo and vernix; and baby has an audible heartbeat.

28 Weeks
Most rapid growth; red and wrinkled; eyelids can open and close; baby storing large amounts of calcium and iron; fetus has a chance of surviving if born. Baby is 15” long and weighs 3 pounds.

32 Weeks
Weight gain and rapid growth; settles in favorite position; valuable fat increases.

36 Weeks
Baby gains 1/2 pound per week; bones of head are soft and flexible; baby has developed immunities. Baby is 18” long and weighs 6 pounds.

Birth
38-42 Weeks
Organs developed; respiratory system is mature.

---

At which point in the above developmental process do you think it acceptable to terminate the unborn child?

[Dog Gone]

So now I must ask this question. Are those of us who believe that we must all actively support the best conservative candidate now, but when the day comes to vote, we will vote Republican no matter whose name is on the ballot, no longer welcome here? Is Jim Robinson going to continue to allow people like Reagan Man continue his attacks on us?

I am quite confident that I am not the only one who would like answers to these questions.

Nobody answered your question directly. This thread, which briefly turned into a hugfest over the banning of numerous people who have been here many years and on our side on numerous conservatives issues, is now headed into the toilet again.

My assessment at present is that if you support the eventual nominee, and if that person isn't acceptable to the Reagan Man crowd, you're not going to feel welcome, whether you get banned or not. Between now and November 2008 is a pretty long time for the kind of crap that's been going on in this thread to continue.

I've drastically cut down on my participation at FR for a couple of reasons, but this thread epitomizes one of them. I can't condone it. But if it's perfectly okay with FR management if this becomes an anti-Republican site next year, depending on who might get the nomination, so be it.

The line in the sand was drawn several weeks ago, and it looks like we'll have to live with that decision.

Even before the first GOP debate.

I don't understand it, I don't support it, and I think this thread ranks up with the most pathetic ever that has been allowed to run and fester on FR.

Can anyone tell me what happens in the scenario if Rudy wins? This forum will have already driven off most Republicans who would vote for him in the general election.

So now it's a third party site, attacking Rudy, easily infiltrated by DU who will say the same things.

I'm not a Rudy supporter. But I can envision the future, and this forum is driving off a cliff. Whether we can avert disaster is not clear to me, but the folks who are celebrating on this thread about it are so misguided.

I wouldn't have even made this post if I didn't care about the future of FR.

[mutley]

*yawn* at this point.

[ansel12]

“He may just abandon all pretense of conservatism.”

That is why I say that “his strengths are the threat”, we saw how he dealt with the New York city Dems and liberals, and everyone living under his Mayoralty.

We admired most of it very much, but I think that all of us at times were a little shocked by his lack of restraint, and there were even times that some of us had to look away, because he really has no personal limits when he wants to impose his will on his area of control.

I have come to think that as President, his target of Constitutional abuses will focus more on national freedoms that he thinks are obstacles to the peace and order that he envisions.

I also believe that Socon issues are not even on his radar, and that he has the basic liberal view that those Socons are just a trouble making, small group that needs to be put side once and for all from National politics.

[mkjessup]

WHO is that filthy P’takh who would DARE graft their image onto the face of KANG?!? ;) LOL

[rbmillerjr]

“I’m not a Rudy supporter. But I can envision the future, and this forum is driving off a cliff.”

Driving off a cliff? Come on. 30-40 posters are nothing in the grandtheme of things (putting aside personal feels) and the one’s that are gone wanted to leave. This site is fine and will thrive, it’s the GOP that is totally lost right now. Total lack of leadership and principles.

[mutley]

WHO is that filthy P’takh who would DARE graft their image onto the face of KANG?!? ;) LOL

That was definitely a step across the line right there.

[ansel12]

“One clue would be that if the post gets tagged from both sides of the debate as a good anchor point, then that’s a real good one to read.”

That is pretty good, it would actually have a moderating influence.

[calcowgirl]

I agree with you on that. That’s why I wanted to hear answers to my questions from JR himself. I certainly wouldn’t want people to think that I was suggesting that they are all in lockstep with a couple of posters. That is not at all what I believe.

With all due respect, there are over 17,000 posts on this thread in the last week, many of them addressing your concerns. I just reposted one that comes close on target. Asked and answered.

BTW, I love your glacial humor. ;)

Thanks! How cold is the glacier? Does my horse need mittens to take that stroll?

[mkjessup]

WHO is that filthy P’takh who would DARE graft their image onto the face of KANG?!? ;) LOL
That was definitely a step across the line right there.

yIDoghQo'!

[Klingon for "don't be silly"]